Joe Rockey: The Behavior Shift That Increased Sales by 20%

Welcome to the behavioral profit show. I'm Debbie

Longo, transformational coach. This show focuses

on why businesses don't perform the way they

should. and what's driving results inside an

organization. We break down how behavior impacts

performance, execution, and profit. Today, we

have a very special guest today, Joe Rocky, and

we'll be discussing a real example involving

a real estate team that had a consistent drop

in performance for part of the year and what

shifted to change that. Joe, before we get into

that, give us a quick introduction about yourself

and then walk us through what happened. Yeah,

sure. So I am Joe Rocky. I have built 29 different

businesses. So you name it. I've seen the transformation

and to dive specifically into what happened here

is this real estate client. I have a lot of them.

So Debbie, I apologize if I kind of blur between

which example we give here, um, because it's

such a commonality of the industry that you go

out, you're selling houses. You probably can

think of this yourself. When'd you buy your house?

I'm willing to bet it was sometime between November

and September, or correction, between May and

September, because that's when the vast majority

of real estate hours are actually executed. And

around the country, especially in the snow belt,

you guys know where you're at, they stop at Labor

Day. I don't want to go out and show a house

when it's cold. I don't want to go out and do

that. So what happens? They just don't show up

and everyone goes, oh, the market's cold. It

doesn't work. The markets are cold. The agents

stopped working. So you can't sell anything without

any salespeople there. And that is the norm.

And you know, what I do is I help people really

get their salespeople in this gate real estate

agents to show back up over the course of that

dead time, which is basically for most places,

Labor Day to Christmas. And I, I get every, every

person who's not teachers, like I wish I had

a summer break that was six months long. Well,

it's hard to run a business that way. Okay. So

tell us about this example about the real estate

and business and exactly what happened and how

we are talking about all of the behavior change

and how it went to the. Increasing sales and

profits, you know, what were they doing day to

day and what was causing that drop in performance?

But first tell us a little bit about the company

and how you became to it. Yeah. So, so well,

the way I came to it is, is we just let people

know this is what we do and people liked it and

reached out to me. And then we just went through

the website. But what the general problem is,

and again, this is, this is kind of hard to say

specifically one, because collectively. across

the sales managers, we have clients, there's

hundreds of real estate agents. So I am painting

with a little bit of a broad brush here, but

it's only because it's accurate. The majority

of these agents, they're not the primary breadwinner

for their household. So the income that they

make is basically fun, happy extra income. It's

not going to make sure the mortgage gets paid

or it doesn't. And as a result, what really motivates

them to come to work is not in the predefined

box. that every MBA student learn. It's all these

other important relationship issues. I want to

feel important. I just like being the guy who

shows the house to everybody. I get to tell you,

no, that's not good enough. All these different

things are motivators why someone would come

to work. And it's very hard to put a, in fact,

it's a possible to put one single box upon it

because every person, regardless of your industry,

because you are a human being, You have roughly

20 different reasons you would go to work and

every person has that list of 20 in their own

personal unique ranking and Different weights

even deeper within that So if you come and try

to treat everyone with a one -size -fits -all

option You're going to be the same communication.

So we see across this country Some people really

resonate really good. Like, yeah, this guy knows

exactly who he's talking about. He's the best

boss I ever had. Most people are like, I'm just

going to do it because it's my job. And then

there's another group of people that are so radically

turned off. It turns into hate and problems.

And from a very scientific level, it's not complicated.

Your top five reasons for wanting to go to work

and that manager's top five reasons did not intersect.

And Like most people my clients are no different

that that problem exists and the managers Have

their own natural way. I grew up to this position.

I earned it This is how I did it. So what other

people should do totally natural. It's the way

we all are It's also not it's not by right. I

mean efficient effective, etc You'll be able

to be the way companies were in the 50s Whenever

it was, I'm just hiring people who are exactly

like me. And since I know how to motivate myself,

you guys will be motivated. You'll go do stuff.

It'd be great. Well, that doesn't really work

because well over 80 % of the workforce, you

just discounted and said, can't work for you.

And when we go into these modern companies where

we are hiring in this case, real estate, anyone

who can get a listing for me. Because it's really

no skin off my back if you fail, but if you win,

it's an extra closing for us. We widen that net

to hire anyone, regardless of what their motivational

factors are. Well, the behavior shift that we

do is get the managers to actually speak the

language each employee wants to hear. So then

it goes from, you know what? That kind of cares

about me too. He gets me. This is the best manager

ever. I know that at the end of the day, I don't

need this money. I don't, but I want to earn

this extra reward. I want to be part of a team.

I want to be recognized as one of his people.

And guess what? It happens. And the actual action

that that manager did that changed was he learned

how to speak, in this case, hire the translator

in us, how to speak the language his employees

wanted to hear. Great deal of effort to do that

if you do it yourself. But the payout is phenomenal.

You go from, I'm just pulling my way because

I have to, to wanting to. And that transformation

is radically powerful, especially with the backdrop

that only 23 % of Americans are actually engaged

at work. Getting them to just go to 80 % engagement.

That's a massive night and day change. And now

they're doing all the stuff you want them to

do. They're having discovery calls. They're getting

more listings. They're talking to people. They're

going out in the field when they're promoting

their, their listings online. They're doing it

in a way that makes your brokerage look stronger.

And guess what? Other people notice that too.

They're at the closing table with other agents.

They're like, wow, I wish my manager treated

me like that. I wish that happened. So now more

people want to work for you. And the basis is

Sales department that wins every time there's

another closing. And if you fail, there's no

cost. A lot of these people just hire anyone

who can pass the test. And this is more industry

agnostic than ever. Look at you insurance agents

hire anyone who can pass the test. But the reality

is, is you treat them great. The rock stars who

already are great, the ones you really want,

they start coming to you. It's a really different

system. But that's the main structural change

to answer your question. You're sort of getting

such a long answer, but it's learning how to

speak your employees love languages, become fluent

in it. And just the whole world changes just

the way it is. So that was good. That's exactly

what I teach. And I've been doing this a very

long time because there's no such thing as a

time where a market is big and a market is slow

and busy. There's no such thing as that because

anybody who's successful can make a busy market

at any time of the year. And that is going to

just depend on how I think. and how my mindset

is. And if I think that way, then it will be

that way. But if I listen to everybody else,

and a hundred real estate agents say, oh, I don't

make money during the holidays, then I'm gonna

say, oh, they don't make money during the holidays,

so therefore I'm not gonna make money either.

But if I... think beyond that and say, well,

I need, I have a mortgage to pay, so I need to

make money around the holidays because the mortgages

do every month, just as an example. So now I'm

going to say to myself, I know 100 % that I will

have closings around the holidays and I will

be able to make money. We call that we call that

creating a knowing where I know in my heart and

in my soul and there is I don't question it at

all. There's no question here. It's just I just

know it and that's it. And these this stuff that

you're saying. about treating your employees

right and good and all these different things.

Everything you're saying is all examples of going

from negative behavior to positive behavior.

And I could think of a million examples of exactly

what the result is of what you're saying, what

the result is of. how they treat their employees,

different things like that. And I think that's

a very good thing that you're doing, because

not only are you helping people become positive,

it's just that that ultimately is gonna increase

sales and profits, and it's gonna make everybody

successful. Not a little successful, extremely

successful, where they are literally at the top

of their industry. And then the other... people

in the industry, executives or business owners,

whatever, they're going to say, how do you get

such high sales around the holidays? Because

we don't make any sales around the holidays because

it's the holidays, right? And they've conditioned

themselves to know that. But what they don't

realize is, is that those real estate agents

or whoever, whatever here, we're talking about

the example. the real estate, but what they don't

realize is those real estate agents, this could

be any business, has now changed their mindset

to know that that's not true. That's not a fact.

because there are no facts. There's no such thing

as any business, as any type of market where

there's an up and a down. There's no such thing.

It's just that I condition my mind to think that

way. And that's the problem with businesses.

That's why they have employees quit. That's why

they go bankrupt. That's why they have high turnovers.

That's why they spend all this money on training.

People quit. They spend more money on training.

People quit again. money that costs the company?

A lot. Just that one example. What happens is

then, then the employees, the business owner

blames it on the employees. Oh, they're quitting.

Oh, this is happening. It's on them. There's

no sales, blah, blah, blah. This is the problem

with a lot of businesses. It's just a fact. You're

totally right because you have the mindset shift

that ends up saying, hey, it's there. Everyone

else has turned off, so I'm just going to turn

off too because We are a herd species, we're

social species, I guess is the way that the science

people say it. And the reality is, is that if

you can get the motivation tied to something

that actually resonates in each salesperson,

it will dominate and go through it. So we do

it with a multifaceted approach. Not only do

each of the individual agents, and this is any

salesperson, this is any, any position where

You know what, you are the hunter killer, you're

on commission, go out and get it. So what often

happens in those environments is that it's almost

like this, the garage where I can go take my

taxi and to go get fixed, but I'm not letting

the other taxi drivers get my fares. I don't

care if I got to box them out or whatever. I'm

getting the fares. So effectively everyone's

just fighting for themselves. You know, you're

not getting that listing on Grant street. I am.

But if you can shift it to not just their own

personal incentives, but to a team based incentive,

that's where the world changes. And using the

real estate example, my company's elite business

cruises. The reason the word cruises in there

is because if the team successfully hits the

goal, they all go on a cruise together. So this

is a demographic that is not the primary breadwinner,

but they can win in all expense paid. Caribbean

vacation for their whole family. Guess what?

The primary breadwinner in the household really

appreciates that. And that kind of internal economic

appreciation can't be gotten anywhere else. But

it's a team reward. So it's now, I don't want

to have Debbie miss her cruise because I know

how much her kids loved it. I'm going to pull

a little bit extra for her and get a couple of

extra listings. I know she's got some for kids

or whatever. I'm going to pull some listings.

I'm going to keep making it because guess what?

I liked being at the open bar with Sally or whatever

the case might be. And it's that team uniting

effort that grows so much beyond just yourself.

Cause to your point before about, especially

solopreneurs, when you were saying you go bankrupt

because, because you weren't able to have this

mindset shift. The finding that I have a lot

is They don't have a big enough perspective of

who they're doing this for. And yeah, I mean,

obviously making yourself happy and successful

and all that stuff can carry you away. And some

people carries much further than others, but

there's a lot of people that just want to see

other people benefit and be successful with them.

That's one of the reasons being a solopreneur

is hard that they don't even talk about them.

The psychology side of it, but it's true for

everything. That was good. So what you were saying

when you were explaining about the teams and

the motivations, right, and all these different

ways that we could motivate all these people,

right, as far as a team effort. Do you know why

we do it as a team? because, which is 100 % effective,

because one person who's negative, if we just

focus, if there's a team of people and we just

focus on one person and we say, okay, you're

doing really good in sales, so we're gonna motivate

you more than everybody else, which a lot of

people, a lot of companies do this. If you just

focus on one person or two people, if you don't

focus on the whole team, that makes one person

negative and that negative behavior, now transfers

to everybody in the team. And then those few

people that they're really trying to motivate

and are now being affected by the people's negativity

that they're not motivating, the people in the

company that they're not motivating. And then

they're like, well, we don't understand. We don't

understand why this is not working. We're trying

to motivate our team members very, very well

because they're good and we know that they can

do better. But this is not working. So and then

they say, well, the employees, they'll blame

it on the employees. And then they'll say, well,

the employees are not getting it. It's just not

working. Instead of saying maybe we should help

the whole team because the ones that aren't performing,

because it makes more sense to to focus on the

ones that are performing good. Then the ones

that aren't performing, but we don't know if

we motivate the people that aren't performing.

We don't know if they're going to perform good

or not. We have no idea because we never tried.

You know what I mean? So you have a group of

people. That's the problem is that it's a group

of people. And there's, there's another element

that goes on. So you hit upon two major things,

which is Barb in the back is becoming disruptive

because you're not caring about her in the way

that she wants to be cared about. Obviously,

again, that's unique to every person. That's

why you need to know what their love language

is. But the other issue is it's a bandwidth issue.

I mean, at the end of the day, you're what I'm

asking someone to do if they would do this themselves.

Is to go completely outside of your personality

understand someone else and then be able to communicate

the way they want her. It's a very hard thing

to do, especially if you're not trained in this

department. It's why most people don't do it.

Why people. Every beginning of this episode is

that you'll be able to figure out why you hated

your boss and why they hate you back because

they didn't connect with you. They felt you were

just a disruptive force in the back. And that's

the issue. And the other part that comes out

of this is that as you're not motivating the

others, when outside people are looking at your

company, regardless of who it is, maybe it's

another sales person considering to join. Maybe

it's someone thinking about buying your company.

You might have your top 20 % elite people and

yeah, you guys can move cars, you move policies,

whatever. You guys are great. But it's the middle

and the bottom. That are making the majority

of your outbound volume in terms of noise That

person who's the top 20 percent. They probably

are spending just the same amount of time On

and maybe even less on the various socials where

people or internet in general where people are

doing research about you So are the majority

of your outbound posts and it will stick with

the real estate agent these guys advertising

their listings and doing it Not just on Zillow,

but on Facebook and all the other places where

they can put their comments in. Are they kind

of slightly bashing the company or are they going

out of the way of saying how awesome it is? Maybe

not when they're talking about the living room

of the house they just listed, but it comes across.

And if you're only having the top people be active

and engaged. Debbie in the back becomes an anchor

that pulls the entire train down It's what happens.

So like I said, I recognize it's a bandwidth

issue in a lot of cases It's a lot of hard work

to learn how to speak That's what people like

me and you are here Debbie because you don't

have to be an expert in everything That's why

this industry exists. So that's one of the things

that I really just want to point out It doesn't

make you a bad person that you can't connect

with everyone and they're not all resonating

with you. It might be a system that needs tweaked

here or there, but it's a fixable problem. No

one is a lost cause unless they're killed 100

% intentionally subordinate. You can't fix that.

But aside from that, you can train people, you

can teach them how to do what you want, sell

widget A, move policy B, it doesn't matter. You're

capable, but what makes your life even easier

Is when people who are already amazingly trained

want to just come work for you because then it's

just All right. You already know how to sell

f -150. Just go on the lot dude. You got this

You know, I don't need to worry about you and

then you look at any sports team when a future

hall of famer joins They all get a little bit

faster somehow. It's crazy. It's like wow We

all feel how we want to train like him. We want

to be like them and it uplifts a lot of Rise

and water raises all ships type thing and it

just starts with Genuinely caring speaking the

love language of all your people so you motivate

them Appropriately and put some extra benefits

there. Yeah through the roof So how about this?

I have a suggestion. How about giving away three

cruises and then instead of one or five cruises,

and then you would give them away to the top

three people that sell the best or the top five

people. And then the first cruise would be the

most expensive one. That would be like a five

thousand dollar cruise. Then the second one would

be like a two thousand dollar cruise. And then

the third one will be like a two thousand dollar

cruise or something like that. So I hear the

idea. Um, we don't do it that way. And here's

why for real estate specifically knowing how

calendar based it can be. And that's the major

problem we're normally brought in to solve in

the first place. We do two cruises a year and

it's, it's six month contest. So new years to

the end of June, July one through new years again.

And the cruises that will actually take place.

If you earned the one from the first half of

the year, that cruise will take place in October.

The second one will take place in April and they're

both very intentional. So you just worked really

hard and this is how most of my clients are.

They don't, the agents don't gather in mass and

do yours the first time, but they hear collectively,

we need to hit this goal and it's all or nothing

for all of us. And that all or nothing element

really will galvanize a team together, especially

when they're learning everything on their own

individual level. Now we do do. Instead of putting

them on a different cruise. We do do put you

in a better room If you're a super rock star

supporter producer like that, so what will happen

is they go out they hear it's here and They have

really strong May and June's to collectively

earn this cruise and they're like any other sales

contest There's gonna be a letdown in the beginning

of July. It's also 4th of July weekend So there's

a little letdown at the top of July and then

they kind of go back to the way they were in

general at this new rate through the end of July,

August, and the very beginning of September.

And then they go on that cruise in October. It's

amazing. The family loves that everyone's happy.

They come back, they look at the scoreboard and

we're like, we're 20 listings away guys. I want

to do this again. Like let's go out and try this

whole, get a listing around Thanksgiving time.

And guess what they do? Because sad to say but

people still die around Thanksgiving a state

still need to get sold people get job Transitions

all this other reasons people buy house during

the summer still exist in America in November

in October in December and Wow because we are

the only brokerage working now. It's easier And

that's the part that blows them away is that

that happens. And then once you get them in that

rhythm of you can do this, we're doing this together

as a team, those superstars, those few superstars

that actually are working in the dead time of

the zone. This is the third closing I've had

with someone from this brokerage. No one from

mine is even showing up to the sales meetings

anymore. Like this is kids. I think I'm just

gonna work for them. And then boom, from that

sales manager's perspective, I just signed someone

who gave me an extra 20 closings a year and I

didn't have to do anything extra. From a bottom

line perspective in terms of total closings that

Brokers does, skyrockets. And then not to mention

that all the numbers they had to hit to qualify

for these cruises. were the reach goals anyway.

It wasn't just them hitting the same old, same

old. There's already building success through

the whole nine yards. So that's why we do two

cruises a year. They're very intentionally built

and laid out with the plan of fighting the fourth

quarter seasonality, which is true in all industries,

and just keeping people motivated. And quite

frankly, the one in April exists because it's

six months away from October. Or yeah, that's

why it exists that way. Another thing that real

estate people can do also because a lot of them

work independently is get a job for a big group

and then they'll learn how to get rid of their

negative attitude because they're motivating.

The group and all these different things and

then they change their behavior and then they

quit that group and then they go on by themselves.

And then they're very successful like that because

they just got free training on how to change,

you know what I mean? On how to change their

behavior. because they might say, oh, I've worked

on my own and I haven't gotten any closings.

And these people, my other real estate colleagues,

they work for big groups and they get closings.

Maybe I should work for them and see what they're

doing. And then they work for them. And then

they, you know what I mean? They, they become

like them and then they quit. And then they go

on and they force it. And that happens a lot.

I mean, real estate is a great example of it.

It also happens in lending. It happens in so

many different. industries, especially if there's

a low barrier of entry from, I was just doing

this as a producer and there's really no rule

why I can't do it as, or very minimal, like I

think one extra test or whatever to be able to

do it as the broker owner. And that is such a

common thing. And I can tell you that my clients

don't normally experience that problem. Yeah,

they still have their, their groups getting created.

but they don't leave the umbrella. And the reason

they don't leave the umbrella has nothing to

do with that person having the ability to go

on their own. They certainly still can. That

hasn't changed. But the reason they don't is

because they actually like being at this company.

So yeah, I can make a couple of extra bucks,

but then I'd have to recreate all this. You don't

go look to go create something new if you're

already cozy and happy. Even if you're making

millions upon billions of dollars, it's like,

Why would I reinvent this? The major reason people

go to create their own thing is not economic.

It's on the personal side of who they want to

work with. Who am I actually doing this effort

for? And this is one of the major problems in

society we have lost. We've forgotten about,

which is people don't go to work with you on

default because they want to go all in for your

company and see your company be successful. They

they're the fault setting is I'm going to work

with you for my personal life to be better Whether

it be the status of this job title or the income

or whatever. That's why they go to work It's

all personal based reasons but companies and

I I blame a lot of the the social stuff from

2010 on starting with me too and then all these

other social and legal potholes, businesses don't

want to learn about their employees. They don't

want to, they think it's, it's a bigger disaster

than it's worth. And punning on the personal

side of your employees is a guaranteed way to

lose them. It's just a question of how long does

it take? It used to be back in the day, you'd

go out to the bar, you'd hang out with people.

You would get to know them deeper than just,

Hey, show up, do your job because I'm paying

you. which is what this has evolved into nationally

speaking and putting in better relationships

is how you win. At the end of the day, this is

going to a broader context. I apologize for going

on a tangent here. The success of every business

only comes down to two questions. What is the

business's relationship with the prospects dash

clients? And what is the business's relationship

with the employees of either of those answers

are yeah, okay. But, or all right, fine. That

business is going to die. It's just a question.

of when. So again, I apologize, Debbie, for going

on that little bit of a tangent there. Yeah.

So these are very good examples and stuff and

all these different things that we're explaining.

And I think this is very good to explain all

these types of things in detail because maybe

somebody, a listener or somebody can get something

out of this and maybe that can help their business

too. Because ultimately what we're describing

here, is whatever it is and whatever we do as

far as motivating or changing behavior in any

way. Right. That's ultimately going to increase

sales and profits. And it's not just going to

be a few dollars. I can pretty much guarantee

you that because I've been doing this a very

long time and I could tell you the results. I

could just play the tape. It's a lot of money.

And that will help, it's not only the money,

it helps everybody be successful in a hundred

different ways. The easiest example is walking

into a room and literally turning on a switch.

And then from a dark room at midnight to the

lights on, that's what you're getting. The cool

part of light, and this analogy is perfect, it

doesn't just stop. Like it just continues across

the whole room, across your whole company, and

it grows from there. So yeah, that's absolutely,

it's beyond a lot of money. It's life -changing.

Exactly so the last question is we discussed

all of this and the last question is We discussed

very little bit about what the results would

be right about changing the behavior We said

you make a lot of money and different things,

but can you think of a specific example? of a

positive result that all of this, everything

we just talked about in this whole podcast, right,

would equal, we can give the real estate example

because that's what we're talking about. So if

you could think of something specific, I would

appreciate that as like a closing question. Oh,

sure. So in general, the first year we have with

a client, they go up 20 % in closings. So that's

the general answer. I mean, obviously there's

so many of them that's an average, but that's

the reasonable expectation because you do two

things. Whenever you start connecting with them

on their personal reason, they now want to do

more. And that's only half the battle. You also

then have to direct that energy in a successful

system. Many companies have part of that equation.

Like they have their sales process. They want

to take someone through. But they don't have

the way to keep the momentum and to keep everybody

going in that direction. One of the, this is

more so in cars, but one of the things I see

a lot is sales managers being like, you guys

are so great for the first two weeks of the month.

And then it's like, you don't even care anymore.

Well, I can tell you exactly why they hit their

personal quotas and they don't really care about

your dealership. They care about their reason,

which was being a breadwinner. And if you can

have your system, which clearly shows you can

have the sales system work, the sales funnel

you got worked, you're having a great two weeks.

Where you're failing is converting that energy

and that passion they have and having it be a

multiplier effect through the building. And this

goes back to what you were saying earlier, what

most companies do. We motivate the top 20 % that

are best. The other middle will either just keep

kind of plodding along or they'll disappear.

Well, before they disappear, they bring a lot

of people down with them. And ewing that system,

it goes like crazy. So, um, the other thing I

mentioned was the recruiting side. So the first

client we did this with was a dealership, car

dealership. And by the end of us working with

him, he went from losing price wars of having

to pay more and more commissions to try to attract

people there to not playing that game at all

and attracting the three best salespeople off

the Chevy lot across the street. and the two

best people from the Toyota lot down the corner.

And his company skyrocketed since then he's bought

in three more locations. And it's just the result

of people feel caring, people feel important,

and they're not phoning in the last two weeks

of the month anymore. And that combination, yeah,

the money part's great. And we talked about how

people make a lot of money, Debbie, but that

confidence as the business owner that says, I'm

gonna grow this i'm gonna buy a lot that's twice

the size of this and a completely different vehicle

class that's the higher end ones that no one

in this county has been able to sell these high

end portions but we're gonna do it because my

people can that's a confidence that you only

get from your people when they are bought into

you and that element. of belief in you and your

people in your vision that's worth more than

any check could ever be. I agree and i would

like to say in closing that not only we can succeed.

And anything that we want these are very good

examples of. What we are talking about as far

as real estate and we mentioned car dealership

a few different things, but if a manager or business

owner really wants to put their mind to it, they

can really change their entire company. And the

example that you gave for, you know, this gentleman

to open three car dealership. It does bring him

a lot of money but it's a life changing thing

only because it's a change in behavior you know

and that's really what we know like i said we

gave a lot of examples of this and that's really

what we're trying to do here we're trying to

explain this and there is no such thing as ups

or downs because any time of the year. Can be

anything and i think that everybody should have

a coach to explain this to them i'm a coach so

i'm not trying to promote myself you do similar

thing this is not really about promoting but

in order to make myself better i can't do it

on my own i can't really do anything on my own.

If i'm really gonna be successful that's really

the bottom line because i can't go by my own

thinking i have to be able to change the way

that i am in order to become a different person

so i can do the job differently. and become something

that I don't know that I am, right, or I don't

know that I could be. So before we wrap up, I

want to leave you with this. That's what behavioral

profit is all about, understanding what's really

driving performance inside a business. If something

isn't working, it's easy to assume it's strategy,

the market, or external factors. But more often

than not, it's how people are operating day to

day. Once that shifts, everything else follows.

If your business isn't performing the way it

should, there's a reason it's not random. to

identify what's actually driving your results

and fix it, connect with me directly. Thank you

for listening and I'll see you on the next episode.

And thank you for sharing. Thanks for being on

the show. I appreciate it, Ron. No, thank you

for having me.