Ignoring Body Language Costs Leaders Credibility and Sales.

Welcome to The Behavioral Prophet, the podcast

where ... we decide the human side of business

growth. I'm your host, Debbie Longo, executive

behavioral coach. And each week we dive into

the mindset shift, leadership strategies, and

cultural behaviors that drive higher performance

and greater profits. Whether you're leading a

team or building a business, this is to learn

how human behavior fuels business success. Today's

guest Dr. Titiana Teppoeva is a certified nonverbal communication

expert, personality profiler, and the founder

of Non... verbal ecosystem with a PhD in economics,

a master's in data science from Harvard and two

decades of leadership experience at Boeing and

Microsoft. Dr. Tatiana Teppoeva brings a rare blend of behavioral

science and business strategy. She now helps

B2B leaders, sales teams and founders elevate

executive presence, close high value deals faster

and lead with emotional authority using advanced

profiling body language. coding and AI informed

insights. Get ready to think how you show up

because Tatiana's work goes beyond words. Good

afternoon, Tatiana. Welcome. Thank you. There's

a few questions and they're divided into topics.

The nonverbal ecosystem. Why silent signals dictate

50 to 93 percent of your impact? What is the

nonverbal ecosystem and how does it shift communication?

So there are multiple studies that tell us that

nonverbal represents a huge percentage. And there

are debates, how much it is, and people sometimes

argue with each other about the numbers. I recently

posted a YouTube video about that. Most known

study is from 1967 from Albert Marie, when he

found that our emotional communication is up

to 93 % of non -verbal, and only 7 % to words.

Another study by Ray Birdweasel says that words

account only for 30 -35%. There is another study

about nonverbal being around 80 -85%. I demonstrated

nonverbal can play a huge role. But for simplicity

and to avoid arguments, I like to use 50 -50.

So about a half of our presence is what we say

and about a half of how we do it. So one nonverbal

ecosystem consists of nonverbal peace. And I

include the personality profiling so we can tailor

our communication. We understand ourselves and

we understand someone who we communicate with

well so we can have personalized experience,

which makes it better for both sides. Nonverbal

peace consists of nine different categories.

It's body language, it's eye contact, gestures,

it's how we dress, and other things. So this

is what I'm covering in my nonverbal ecosystem.

The next question is, which invisible signal

sabotages leaders most often? Three main things,

and all of them related to mismatches. So one

I would highlight, it's a mismatch between what

we say and how we show it. For example, if I

say, hello, everyone. I'm so confident, and I'm

happy to share with you today. Do you feel a

mismatch? We feel some subtle cues and differences,

so it can go different ways. But when it's mismatched,

when we try to send one message but express it

differently, this is the first mismatch between

the message and how we show up. This second one

is when we address personality the way we would

like to be addressed. For example, if we have

a driven person, goal -oriented, who does everything

fast. And this person is communicating to someone

who is anxious, slow, takes his or her time to

analyze things, to have a plan B and plan C.

And this person will start like, let's decide

now, move on. then the distance will become wider

and wider between them because they have different

ideas about lives. So it's very important to

see who is in front of us and tailor our messaging

to the person. Knowing profiling is great, but

even if you don't know, you can observe the person

and see how they behave. And maybe you can adjust

here and there perception, whatever you've gathered

from observing them. And it's important everywhere

where we communicate with each other. third mismatch

when our action and intention don't match what

we actually do. So for example, I would say,

Debbie, how are you? How was your day and how

was your vacation? And I'm doing something else.

And you feel like is Tatiana interested in what

she's asking or she's just doing like check marks.

In sales teams, they have a skit, they don't

engage and then they get surprised like why this

client walked away and why they didn't sign up.

And they don't realize that the way they showed

their disinterest and this potential buyer, they

didn't feel connected. There's a statistic. When

I meet somebody for the first time, that is about

five percent of their personality. And we think

that's how they really are. And that's judging

the person. Maybe they want to. hire an employee.

That employee has to make a really good impression.

In that interview, they have coaches for this

so they can really present themselves properly

because one wrong move is going to ruin the whole

thing. And that business owner will say, I can't

hire this person. The nonverbal ecosystem that

you were talking about. And if I want to create

a relationship, with my employees and expand

my business and make goals so I could increase

sales and profits. I want to do all these things

not by judging and by saying, this is the way

that the person is. Nonverbal is important in

a lot of situations because I had to be nonverbal

in a professional way. And this starts with the

business owner or the executive. Then not only

are the employees going to follow, but they're

going to see that business owner completely different

because that's more valuable than the things

that they say. Because you ever hear of actions

speak louder than words? Not only actions, but

also our nonverbal. Because as we talked with

you, someone can be saying one thing, but showing

completely different thing with their nonverbal,

and you read it. And I wanted to add to your

statistics that usually we have up to five seconds

make overall impression. And after that, it changes

a little bit, but not too much, even though we

don't know person very well. We saw him or her

first time. And then we saw that this process

is actually very shallow. comprehension of them

in the first five seconds. So it's very important.

And I want to add to your very valuable point

about connection. So we are not talking about

faking or creating some kind of power pose to

impress someone, artificial. This is to connect.

And if the manager would like to understand their

employees better, so it works for both sides.

Manager has more influence and feels that they

can rely on the employees, some particular personality

types will not tell you much about their personal

life or concerns they have. But if you ask them

some questions, and even if they don't answer

openly, but you watch their body language, what

they are doing at the moment, if they cover their

mouth, face, that will have some cues that they

are not completely confident in what this manager

is saying, you can ask other questions. You can

create some discussions, maybe some meetings

about something. So be more observed and try

from different sides. And when you find this

key. to your employee, the whole thing changes.

And we know that the majority of employees leave

companies, not because of the companies, but

because of the managers. So if we address this

element, then we would have fewer people leaving

because of this mismatch. The second topic is

personality profiling in sales and leadership,

customizing influence strategies for faster,

deeper trust. How do you quickly profile a prospect

in a high stakes meeting? There are some cues

that we can look at, and some people are more

expressive than others. And it's also a cue,

because we have personality types that like to

show up, that they're here and they're there.

And others just aren't there, but I'm on the

back. If you need me, you can rely on me. So

there are different styles on how people show

up. And this would be the first cue. The second

one, we can look at the facial expression, and

even wrinkles that we have can suggest to someone.

who understands how to read them, what personality

type it is in front of us. Another thing is gestures.

Are they wide and open or narrow and close to

the body? There is a lot of adaptation signals.

We all have them, but we express them differently.

This will show anxiety about particular situation

or topic that we are talking about. And another

thing, even to look how we appear. Are we in

worn -out t -shirt Or are we in a dress with

big flowers and a lot of accessories and a lot

of makeup? It's also signs of personalities.

And of course, I just would like to just caution

that don't judge by one thing. So we need to

see a comprehensive picture of the person because

sometimes I can walk with a stylist and be dressed

not because I like it. or because of my personality,

but how they taught me to look for the occasion.

So if we take just one element in isolation,

we also may be judging based on how this element

looks at the moment, but not the total picture.

So if we look at all the elements together, and

even better, if we have some information prior

to the event to read what they wrote or how they

showed up online or at work, if we have this

information, that it will add to the story, we

can make some assumptions. And try, for example,

if you communicate at the meeting, try approach

for strategists or try approach for anxious person

and see how they respond. And if our approach

with them, they understand us and they respond

and react well, then we probably got it. If not,

then we can pivot based on their reaction. So

this would be the main things that I would look

at. And again, if you are not a profiler or non

-verbal communication expert, just trust your

instinct. Watch for those signs and cues and

try experiment. And with more and more practice,

you will get better and better at. Even if I

am a reputable employee or manager or somebody

that's higher up in the company I still want

to pay attention and I want to be like I am at

the job. I don't want to act differently. We're

really firm when I'm at the job and delegating

job duties to the employees, but then I walk

into the meeting I act like a new employee. I

want to be able to play the part because to me,

that's really what it is. An executive plays

his part. He does his role. The employees do

their role. What I got out of what you're saying

is they need to play that same part in everything

they do at that job. I was thinking of something

that you said in the beginning. I don't wear

it up. When I do these podcasts because I want

people to see how I really am if I wear makeup

During the podcast people are gonna think that

I wear makeup all the time. Then I sit on a couch

So I make it look like a casual Conversation

so not where I'm a business person. I'm sitting

at a desk I'm sitting in an executive chair to

me. Those are things that might possibly turn

somebody off. That's like a statistic. Two billion

people. Listen to podcasts, I make clips only

because my podcasts are pretty long most of the

time. What I got out of what you're saying is

I want to play that role. I want to make sure

that I'm giving the impression that I should

be giving. Because if I don't do that, then not

only is it going to create confusion, I could

get fired if I... I can add a couple of comments.

So as far as makeup, for example, it really depends

on taking a mini MBA course for style. because

I have clients who ask for this. Not wearing

makeup to the events is a bad taste. So you see,

perception is very different than here. Did she

even wash her face in another setting? I would

say that being authentic most of the time, as

much as we can, but be appropriate at the same

time is very important. And the second comment

I wanted to make, so you gave example from what

you've seen. I've seen a lot at companies that

especially females at the meetings, they say

something and people don't notice. And then guys

say something and everyone catches their idea.

And how about another one? Person doesn't do

that much outside of the meetings, but during

the meetings, especially with leadership, this

person is the first one to speak up on the topic,

cover achievements. that the team or another

person did without mentioning them sometimes

and things like that so how to deal with those

challenging situations to show up yourself when

you are not the person who is a performer who

is look at me i'm here and here is my results

it's a deep walk it's very hard and i know from

myself because i don't like to speak up at every

this is the skill that we need to develop And

those people who feel that they need this walk,

it may be a little bit harder for them, but it

will be very beneficial for them at them. And

sometimes we don't realize like what specific

area we need to improve on because we can improve

a walk and improve everything. But if we talk

about 80 -20 rule. or those 20 % of improvement

that we can make in our nonverbal that would

affect 80 % of perceptions that people get in

from us. So I wanted to point out this challenging

problem at work as well. Thank you. So the next

question is, executive presence and emotional

authority, practical routines that upgrade how

leaders enter the room. What is the first behavioral

blind spot you look for in C -suite client? So

going back, especially to females, I had very

many at Microsoft before I started coaching and

doing nonverbal sessions and video assessments.

And what I see is that often females, but also

males undermine the authority. So they don't

present themselves as well as they could. And

it can be done by different forms. For example,

one of those adapters, if we constantly do something

or you are very confident, you are talking about,

but then you finally, you move in some ways.

And again, I'm trying to exaggerate a little

bit because I have only that much space to show

here. Some examples, but still subconscious cues

that we will be reading from this person to undermine

a little bit more of the authority. If you look

at some famous speakers, they begin with coaches

and sometimes not a year or more. And CEOs of

big companies, we think how good they are. They

are completely different people. So it's a skill

that you can acquire to project yourself very

well. Those misalignments, mismatches that I

mentioned earlier, the ones that I'm looking

for, and also the ways that we don't undermine

our authority ourselves. I really appreciate

your insight and the way that you explain it,

because it's very easy to understand. I am the

type of person and whether I enter a room or

wherever I go, I have a very leadership behavior

and I show that immediately. Like here, I'm sitting

on a couch, I'm talking calmly, but if you see

me in person, I'm not this way. I like the phrase,

some people are natural born leaders. The way

that I act and the impression that I make, whether

it's a first impression or whether I start talking,

people can tell. immediately that I'm a leader

and that I can take control and run a business.

Many people have told me that and that's why

they wanted me to start my own business, which

I was doing, but I was in management my whole

life. I manage retail stores and I had no problems

at all because of the way that I act and the

way that I behave, how I enter the room, just

like we were talking about. But let me ask you.

So you probably strategist and I have other assumptions,

but I also don't want to judge from very short

period of time. What would you say? Do you have

a challenge of not showing too push or not showing

overbearing, over leading and being on the softer

side? Maybe for you, because you're on the couch

and without makeup and trying to present yourself

in more casual way. Those are your kind of things

around to soften your cheap side of you. So your

personality type is the leadership. Go get it.

But you have challenges maybe to adjust it on

another end of it. Other people who are very

good on the soft side, they have challenges with

leadership. I think that if I'm talking to one

person, it's not as bad. But if I'm in a room

with a group of people or even just a few people,

I... project that leadership and that very strong

first impression. I do that automatically. I

don't even think about it. And I like that. So

I want to do more of that. I don't want to be

calm. It's great when whatever we would like

to have, we have, right? This is a personality

type that you've been born with. So we have a

personality type that we are born with and then

the ones that we acquire through our life. For

example, if I'm shy person, but I need to stand

up at the meetings. I need to show up. It's hard

work for me because I need to change myself.

If you are a leader position in a big company

and then you come home and you need to be so

and not being like, I will tell you where everything

is right with your kids, spouses, relatives.

Then there could be another challenge with it.

We need to adjust to the occasion and situation

where we are. Some of us very successful at this

and some learning and trying. But again, The

skill is learning so we can train it and get

better and better, at least if we want. If we

don't, if everything is good, then there's nothing

to add. That's very true. Thank you. So next

topic, gendered leadership patterns, when gender

dynamics matter and when they don't. Do women

leaders need a different playbook or just different

emphasis? Do you tailor coaching for women in

leadership? I do. And I tell it actually to each

person based on the goals that they pursue, challenges

that they observe. Or maybe they have feedback

from other people like you shared with me. So

the same is all individuals. But if you talk

on female leadership specifically, then definitely.

And I mentioned earlier that I noticed and I

heard from that they underestimate themselves

and skills. So I interviewed over 100 people

at Microsoft for data science positions. I interviewed

males, females, project managers, data scientists,

engineers, software developers. In 80 % of the

time, females undercut themselves. They think

they need to have 120 % of what is required in

job description to even qualify. Male candidates,

they have 60 % and they think that... that's

good enough, that requirements are too high,

like it's not realistic. And when you talk with

them, I tell them, you are so good, you need

to go and ask for more difficult projects. When

I work with non -verbal, I look for the things

that our people already possess because everyone

has good things already in them and how they

can leverage them to their advantage. I open

their eyes and say, look at this, how it's great.

When we do video assessment, I show them how

how great it is, feel even better in their own

eyes. They look at themselves differently. I

try to look at 80 -20 and adjust those 20 % of

what will give 80 % of the impact of the perception.

If they want to continue working more, then we

can do more, but at least 20%. And for females,

it's mostly about confidence and how they show

up. When for males, it can be adapters being

too pushed, being too forward, being too much

into there, whereas they can push people away.

It's not completely 50 -50 or black and white.

It's a mix of main trends that I'm seeing. So

did you ever hear the expression, it's a man's

world? Yes, and it's changing depending on what

time we live in and what culture. It all affects

us. Fortunately, unfortunately, there's not much

we can do. And by the way, for your audience,

I prepared free guide. can see main things that

they can watch for. Just quickly, I think a woman

is just as qualified for any job that a man does,

if not more qualified. But it might be different

in Russia. In the United States, to me, women

have always been in the minority. And that's

why we say it's a man's world. But when a woman

really becomes a big leader, then they see that

a woman could do it. But a lot of times women

have to be twice as good. They have to be twice

as smart. they have to perform better. Just in

my view, the way America is, and I've coached

people like this, I know from my own experience.

Totally agree. It's the same if not worse in

Russia. You need to be twice as good to prove

your point. That's why these impressions that

we make, perceptions that we create is very important.

Because if you don't do it well, it's how much?

Hardly, we need to walk. It's four times. So

it's very important. Very good. Thank you. So

next topic, AI informed human intuition, where

AI enhances real time behavioral decisions. Where

does AI amplify not replace your work? So with

growing AI industries, there are tools that are

going into conversational AI, personalization,

LHR preparation, how we hire people, or how we

even read interview when they try to identify

patterns based on the video for the interview.

AI is still not there. It cannot read in context

very well yet. It cannot read all the cues. It

misinterprets things. But as a baseline, if I

work, for example, with big quantities of phone

calls or something like that. Established baseline,

they help. But there are many issues, tools.

Recently I analyzed, I think about 15 email tools

for personalization. And I thought it will take

me so long to analyze each of them and try and

pay whatever the monthly fees. I was surprised

when like half of them just didn't work. There

are either buttons didn't work or something was

wrong on the website itself. then another portion

of them just gave promises, eight times better

personalization, something like that. But what

they did actually is just get personalization

with hello. And there is a name put in the brackets

and some other information in the brackets, and

this is where it ended. So not honestly much

personalization. Another portion of tools was

about scraping online space and inserting some

information from there. But it can be creepy

because if we email our prospect like, oh, I

saw you attended this event with your son. I

think it was cool. And then this Prospect thinks,

what? How do you know this information? Are you

following me? Are you watching me? I don't want

you to know this information about me and my

son. So it can be creepy. If we use AI to communicate

this way and then we talk with this person, do

we really remember what AI talked about? The

person on that end would remember because it

details about their life. We can ask AI to summarize

it for us, but the problem that the person on

another end will not be talking in summaries.

They can ask us, how about that event that I

went with my son that you mentioned? Did you

go? And you're like, what event? AI didn't give

me this information in the summary. What event?

I don't know. And if we talk this way with our

prospects, and they after a few times realize

who was writing me those emails, it's not about

personalization. It's about breaking trust. Right

now, many companies already have AI field, and

all AI -generated emails, personalized emails

get filtered. But there are a few tools that

can be useful that I can use. Some of them we

need to be very careful from security perspective.

So, for example, one of companies with great

idea, but we don't know, like, what if something

happens? They claim that they already have 2

billion emails. And to use their services, you

need to give them access to all emails. They

can grow with learning experience and have a

bigger database of everything and to be able

to help us. Just imagine if there is a breach,

and recently there was 16 billion password breach

in big companies. So if even big companies can

be a problem like that, what can we talk about

our emails? And I ask ChildGPT, just give me

20 scenarios how this information can be misused.

So if we get this information, we also call emails

that we have, maybe amounts that we are discussing,

services that we are discussing, maybe customers,

clients sharing information outside, even the

topic of the agreement, we expose potentially

a lot of information. So we need to be very careful

who we give access to and be very mindful who

we are signing up for. But there are some good

tools and they're improving. So hopefully it

would be. move them but I'm concerned about security.

There's a lot of things going on with AI and

I'm sure we could talk for a very long time about

it and the things that you mentioned were very

basic but I don't use AI and there's really no

reason for me to use it in my business. AI cannot

replace our behavior. It can't replace our personality,

the way that we talk. And to me, that's one of

the reasons why the podcast is so valuable, because

we had this whole conversation. And as far as

I know, we didn't use AI. It's a fine line. But

if somebody just spends their whole career writing

emails or doesn't talk or doesn't converse with

anybody, they just sit in a cubicle, then maybe

it's good for them. A lot of times it can be

a hindrance and it depends on the industry that

you're in, but it's very controversial. So the

last topic and the last question is action toolkit

for listeners, first steps to read a room, diffuse

tension and close high value deals. What is one

exercise a listener can try this week to boost

executive presence? I will give two. if it's

okay. One is to record me interview or whatever

this person has and watch it without sound then

with sound. and think about what impression am

I making on my audience, and how I like it, or

maybe there are some pieces that I don't. If

you can't see anything, you can ask someone you

trust, maybe some relative or some coworker,

friend, and ask their impression. Also, do it

without sound and with sound. So they only can

observe nonverbal and then they can observe both.

So this would be very valuable. We don't look

at ourselves that much. It would be super beneficial.

And another exercise would be great that if you

have some goal, I would like to be this confident

person. And I know that I have some internal

limiting beliefs or some roadblocks. Imagine

that you don't have any of those. You're perfect.

You're North Star. And record yourself. It doesn't

have to be in real life somewhere at the meeting

if you don't feel confident doing it. You can

just do it with yourself. Just go in this state

of mind. Feel that you are that person and record.

yourself giving speech or doing some actions

and compare this to your previous recordings

from the meetings or whatever. In most cases,

you will see the difference that how you showed

up here as the person who you wanted to be would

be much closer to your North Star. if not completely

there, then the one that you are in reality.

And it would be the sign, finding this difference

and working on that. And the beauty of nonverbal

is that it works both ways. So inside, transformation

shows up on our external, on nonverbal, how we

portray ourselves. But it also works the opposite

way. So if we start being more open, showing

more power, doing things that don't do, but we

should more, then internally, also changes. So

it works both ways. So addressing it from both

perspectives would be the best. And of course,

some people more inclined to internal work and

others inclined to external work more. But the

balance of both, I think it's the best. Yes,

that makes a lot of sense. Really good suggestions

and insight. If I were just to take one thing

away, One thing out of the last question that

you said, and the key thing for me is toolkit,

because I want to point the finger. It's you.

You're the problem. It's your fault. And I don't

really want to look at myself because that takes

too much time and that's too much of a problem.

And I can't be bothered with that. help people

with their behavior, whether it's looking at

themselves, maybe they have an issue or something

they want to work on, something like that. And

so everything that you said was very important

to me because I have people on this podcast in

all different industries and I'm trying to get

a very broad range. That's why the podcast is

so general. Most podcasts, they focus on one

thing. Here's the script. Here's the questions,

but I don't do that because I want to be able

to send a message and maybe try to contact the

person that's in the industry of what we're talking

about. In every podcast, I want to do that. And

that's one of the reasons why I do it. So I want

to be prepared and I want to have a plan. I want

to have a toolkit for whatever it is. If I just

wing it. and say, this is gonna happen, I don't

really know, I'm just speculating, or it doesn't

matter to me, then... I might wind up in a worse

situation than I am now. I don't want to take

that chance. I want to make sure that I take

the action and use the toolkit and make a plan

and have a coach help me. The way that I coach,

it doesn't matter what field you're in. I do

something completely different than what most

coaches do. And this is another reason why I

have the podcast. Working with experts not only

gives you professional opinion, it shortcuts

your path. to success so much. I myself got into

nonverbal, not because it was a dream from earlier

age, but I was good at getting interviews, getting

jobs and selling things. And so something worked

very well, but I felt in some nuances it was

missing, but I couldn't identify myself what

exactly it was. And this led me to go into nonverbal,

into profiling, learning more and now style and

all of those things. And I learned from expert

so much that I wouldn't have read from the videos

that I would record because I'm not this expert.

So it's super important to seek help and you

will shortcut it so much. And I see it from the

people who come to me that they try it with and

something else and they're still there. But at

least recording themselves and know they are

not where they are and maybe tweaking a little.

It's first step in realizing that there is some

room for improvement. And because we talked with

you, the behavior, nonverbal. It's a huge part

of perceptions that we create on people and how

we show up in this world in different circumstances.

I totally agree it's super important to work

with experts who can help and accelerate your

progress so much. That was important. If you

want to start applying this today, Tatiana created

a free guide called Five High -Stake Signals

to Master for Executive Presence. It's based

on real coaching. and available at, I'll put

the link in the description. It's a great primer

to what I teach in more depth. Last question.

How can listeners bring this kind of coaching

into their teams? Thank you for being on the

show. I have the links here and I'll put everything

in the description and it will be clear if you

want to get in touch with Tatiana. pleasure to

be here and discuss such an important topic.

And thank you for all the listeners. I hope that

your impression will be great. Thank you.