Engineering Leadership: Steve Morris on Behavior, Balance, and Breakthroughs

Hi, welcome to the Behavioral Profit, the podcast

where leadership behavior meets bottom line results.

I'm your host, Debbie Longo, executive behavioral

coach. Each week we unpack the mindsets, habits

and cultural shifts that turn teams into high

performing profit driving powerhouses so you

can lead with purpose and win with people. Joining

me today is Steve Morris, a mechanical engineer

turned leadership strategist with an MBA. and

34 years guiding high performance teams on sea

and land. After designing multi -million dollar

racing yachts and project managing new ships

for the U .S. Navy, Steve became a certified

EOS implementer and positive intelligent coach.

He now helps entrepreneurs and executive teams

shift who they're being. so their actions, cultures,

and results follow effortlessly. Get ready to

explore behaving -driven leadership from the

inside out. Good afternoon, Steve. Welcome to

the show. Thank you very much for having me,

Debbie. It was a great introduction. Today, we're

going to talk about, Steve, you pivoted from

engineering multi -million dollar yachts and

Navy ships to coaching leadership teams. What

specific mindset shift did that move demand of

you and how do you help clients engineer a similar

shift instead of just tweaking tactics? I'm going

back to the beginning of my career and that sort

of that engineering, the project management,

very sort of goal directed. work and I think

what I've really learned in the Transition and

coming into coaching is kind of seeing that and

it comes back to a quote from James clear actually

from atomic habits Which is you never rise to

the level of your goals you fall to the level

of your systems And I think that that's one of

the real mindset shifts that I have seen and

experienced is this. We can set these goals out

there, but unless we're really putting systems

in place, those goals remain a dream. And I can

particularly look sort of look back over my career

and kind of see some of those times when a goal

was not met just because we really didn't have

a system in place to be able to get there. Yes,

I agree with that. Thank you very much. So my

whole entire coaching, everything I do when I

make a plan for my clients, every aspect of my

coaching, helping them in every way, shape and

form is all about developing systems and also

humans are a creature of habit. So if I develop

systems, It's very easy for them if they do the

same thing over and over. It's very easy for

them to get it without just doing things randomly,

right, and having no system. So that was very,

very good that you pointed that out. The next

question is many entrepreneurs chase the latest

framework, yet you argue that who they're being

drives everything. How do you measure being in

a world obsessed with quarterly metrics? What

evidence convinces skeptical CEOs that inner

work isn't soft? Ultimately, my experience is

that they're not disconnected. And so, yes, how

do we measure being? What are those external

measures that might sort of show up on a company

scorecard or KPIs, for example? And so one of

the things that I think, you know, as you're

asking me this question, what comes up for me

is remembering a team and that were very challenged

and sort of beset by certain incident that had

happened environmentally in their business and

who they were being coming into the conversation

was we're going to cut staff, we're going to

reduce salaries. They were in the downward spiral,

and it's about how they were seeing the world.

And so the shift I worked on with them, they

had a couple of new ideas in their pipeline that

they just hadn't explored. And so getting out

of that downward spiral into the art of possibility,

creating possibility, how might we go after these

new business areas that were on the issues list.

And ultimately the team got out of that downward

spiral and was able to continue their business

forward very successfully. So there's a very

externally measurable result. Like the business

is still in business and they're making profit.

And that resulted from a shift in who they were

being. Everybody always has an internal stance,

by which I mean like how they see the world,

how they see each other, how they see themselves.

You have that anyway. People get up out of bed

in the morning and their mind just starts going

down that race track of how they see the world,

each other and themselves. And so one path can

be a path that's taking the business off track,

I would say. Another path. that you can choose

to take with who you're being and those things

is can be a more positive generative path. You're

going to take one path or the other. So I think

to me, the answer to the question is like all

of the external results of the business come

from the internal stance of who the leadership

team being. To me, it's kind of like really in

a work. rather than focusing on the metrics.

That is all outside forces, things that have

to do with a corporation and developing a corporation

and making profit. So those things are needed,

but how does it start? Does it start with figures

and numbers or does it start with having a positive

attitude, getting systems? And when I change

my behavior first and I change my attitude and

I go into that, whether I'm developing a business

from scratch or I am making the business better,

if it went through bankruptcy or whatever. immediately

going into a positive attitude. And when that

happens, what's going to happen? Am I going to

get negative or positive results? I'm going to

get more positive results. And that's exactly

what I want. And one of the reasons why I do

these podcasts is it focuses on behavior, most

of them, and that's why it's called behavioral

profit. And I do all these different industries

and I don't specifically focus on a certain type

of industry or a certain way of thinking because

there's all different industries out there. And

there's one way pretty much to solve a lot of

people's problems. It doesn't really have anything

to do with the industry and all these outside

forces and all these things. But if you're in

this industry or this type of work, then you

want to be able to relate to it. So that's kind

of like the grab. And that's the attraction.

And then we go into all these other things. So

that was good. So you're an EOS implementer.

When founding team insists their issues are purely

operational, how do you reveal the hidden behavioral

patterns sabotaging traction without sounding

like a therapist in disguise? Well, I guess just

the way I work with the teams is We work on what

we call the 90 -day world. And when I come in

and I help clients implement EOS in their business,

we in the whole business set up on this 90 -day

cadence, which means they spend 90 days with

their head down, running like heck in the business.

And then we'll come and we'll have a quarterly

meeting. And in that meeting, we look back over

those 90 days and learn the lessons. Then we'll

check back in with the vision for the business.

And we'll set new priorities, assuming everybody's

on the same page with the vision, it's still

a good vision, set new priorities for the next

90 days and we dive into the business. So where

this sort of gets revealed, the connection between

like setting goals and setting these priorities

is we write this stuff down at each one of those

quarterly meetings when they're called ROCs.

ROCs are 90 day business priorities. And we write

down what the priority is, like maybe it's new

marketing strategy. Well, we'll just maybe the

rocks is called marketing strategy. And then

we write down like, what does done look like?

So 90 days later, we're going to come back. How

do we know that this project is successful or

being completed? I'll help my clients write down

what done looks like. So having got all of that

defined and they're all in agreement that this

is what we're going to do, they launch off and

put their heads down, run like heck for the next

90 days. My point in all of this is when we get

to the end, the end of the quarter, when we're

looking at, did you get the rock done or not

done? And this is where maybe they might say,

well, it's not done because of X, Y, Z, all of

these excuses. And as you're sort of pointing

out, like as I'm a coach, I'm looking, is this

really an external operational issue or is it

really about the internal who they're being?

So having defined what the project was going

to be. We get to the end. It didn't get completed.

Now I really do have the ability to help that

team see, right, by asking questions like what

went on and to try to really drill down and get

to the root cause. So the idea that while maybe

there was some external operational reason why

we didn't get the marketing strategy, we got

too busy. Could you tell me more about that?

Why did you guys get too busy? You know, what

was getting in the way of you guys meeting together

to come up with the strategy? Why were you unable

to? What was happening? We can just sort of keep

on going down deeper and deeper and deeper until

we really get to hopefully being able to shine

a light on truly what was going on. And I think

the art of coaching is not like if I just tell

them. Then they can go into defensive mode and

they don't believe me or they do the self justification.

No one learns So I've really got to just ask

questions and then till they get to the answer

because that's always the thing is the answers

in the room That's that's one of the givens.

I don't have the answer They've got the answer.

So we just need to keep on digging down until

they get to one that an answer that is real,

not just a made up surface answer, but down at

the root cause of what's going on. You said the

secret to pretty much all of my work is that

I ask question after question after question.

And everything from the evaluation, when I work

with a client, all the way down to sessions that

we have, it's constantly questions. because the

person needs to be able to know and understand

exactly what we're doing because I'm not going

to be doing the work. They are. So if they don't

want to do something or they don't see that it's

a problem, then I'm not going to force anybody.

We just move on. So the other thing, too, I was

thinking of is when we have a system or strategy,

we develop it. And that doesn't change. because

it's not human, especially if we're punching

information into a computer. A computer is not

human. It doesn't just say, I don't like this

idea anymore. I don't like this system anymore.

I'm going to change it. It's changed by humans.

So if I develop something, it's always gonna

be that way until I change it. But whether I

change it or not and how I change it, nine times

out of 10 is based on and dictated by my behavior

at that time and what's gonna happen and what's

happening in my world. and my negative or my

positive. So it's not only the system because

people will say, well, this doesn't work and

the system doesn't work. The computer is not

working right. And they always want to point

the finger. So they're constantly pointing the

finger on something else, somebody else instead

of looking at themselves. So it's easy to blame

it on somebody else. And it's easy to take the

focus off of me. and put the focus on another

thing or another issue or another problem. And

that way we will think that it's the other thing,

but it's not. And I know that is, but that depends

on. whether they want to change, whether they

see it or whether they really want to do something

about it. Because I could be pointing the finger

my whole life and be negative my whole life and

I'll never be successful. And if even if I am,

it'll just be a short period of time because

it'll be just just a matter of time before I

go down the tubes and then my business will go

down the tubes with it. So that was good. Yeah,

that was good. Thank you. The next question is,

positive intelligence places sabotagers and Sage

at the center of performance. Give us a moment

when your own sabotager nearly torpedoed a project.

What did you do and how does that story land

with hard -nosed executives who dismiss mindset

talk? In the work that I do with individual coaching,

one of the frameworks I use is positive intelligence.

So this is based on how we think, what's going

on inside our minds. And it starts off with that

judging voice. And everybody's got it, because

we're just human. Some people call it the noisy

roommate in your head. We just live in judgment

of others and circumstances our whole lives.

That doesn't always serve us very usefully. And

in particular, there are other types of judgmental

negative thinking or non -useful thinking that

get in the way of us really being able to do

things more productively. And so one of the ones

for me, one of these saboteurs is being a controller

and sort of really always being a project manager

and engineer that was just kind of like, stand

back, I'm an engineer. I'm like, I know what

I'm doing. It's sort of like being away. my life

went and things and so what that results in or

has resulted in in the past is sometimes I've

been there because that control and mindset is

like I'm the only one who knows how to do this

and I'm the only one who knows how to do this

and so no one else can get this done. So what

does that mean? It means I'm at the office in

the weekends. It means that I'm working late

nights. while other people have gone home to

enjoy their families and to enjoy their lives.

And you asked me for a particular example. I

don't know. I've got many from my past until

I managed to turn the corner about how I'm thinking.

But I can remember a big proposal we had, we

were working on in our business. It was worth

tens of millions of dollars. And just my need

to have it be right meant that I was in there

all weekend. working. I was the proposal manager

and I couldn't delegate and get people writing

the bits of the proposal that they were experts

in because I was just holding on too tight and

I needed it all done now and I didn't have the

proper plan and it ultimately resulted in the

I had a moment where I just like I just couldn't

get there from here and that was a bit of a breakdown

moment and so what's the I had to go see my boss

and just sort of reframe things and then get

a new plan in place. But I mean, ultimately,

my need for control almost sank the entire proposal

effort and meant that we wouldn't have got the

proposal in. Thankfully, we did in the end and

we did win a piece of the work that we wanted.

So it all turned out OK, but it was not a pretty

sight. It was not a pretty experience, a good

experience for me. And so really what I think

is that these mindsets can come up in little

ways that people kind of don't really realize

and see. And then when we get these big failures

happening in the business, if a proposal doesn't

get submitted or we don't win the proposal or

a major customer ends up getting ticked off and

decides that they're going to take their business

elsewhere. I mean, all of these things come as

a result of mindset, right, from the perspective

of the people working in the business. So there's

a cost. there's a very real cost. It can be an

externally measurable cost of we lose business,

customers go away, or it can be a harder to track

cost like turnover. People leaving jobs because

they're burned out or because they don't like

working with somebody else or they've got a toxic

boss, that costs companies a lot of money. I

mean, it costs the statistics sometimes it's

like a 150 % of somebody's salary is the cost

to replace somebody. So the cost of having non

-useful thinking and sort of the inefficiencies

and the impediments that it makes to truly forming

a high -performing team can be measured in the

hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars

in some businesses. It sounds like you gave an

example of what we just spoke about in the last

three questions because What I develop can work,

and I know it will work because it's worked in

the past. But how am I going to implement it?

What's my attitude? What's my behavior? And unfortunately,

every day, that's a different thing. When I wake

up, I could potentially be a completely different

person than the day before. And the other thing,

too, is I have friends that are in this field

in the scientific field, engineering. They actually

do not this exact work, but something very, very

similar on the same kind of mindset. And they

focus on the facts because in science, in engineering,

all these different industries, everything is

based on facts. But this type of work is not.

It's based on changing your behavior. All of

these things that we were just speaking about

right in these last few questions and that's

something completely different. They had a change

their whole entire everything their life their

behavior the way that they were thinking everything

in depth before they were able to do this work

and help people because that's ultimately what

they did just like you and I do. I don't have

this experience, but I was thinking about that

just came to my mind when you were discussing

this. So so it's good. So designing racing yachts

means balancing speed, safety and cost under

intense time pressure. Translate one principle

from that arena into a leadership lesson that

most boardroom overlook. The most interesting

principle for me that I. from my my sailing days

that I bring into my work with my clients now

is balance. This, you know, the subject of work

life balance is always a constant theme in businesses.

And so people are always sort of I think when

people sort of talk about this work life balance,

I get the sense that people sort of have this

idea like I'm going to just figure this thing

out and then I'm going to be good. and it's going

to be in balance. My work and my life are going

to be in balance. A sailboat is the ultimate

machine to me. It's about balance. It's the wind

coming into the sails, the waves, the healing

of the boat, the writing moment that comes from

the keel. Everything's in balance, but it's not

a static balance. It's a dynamic balance. And

when the wind blows a little bit more, as a gust

comes in, the boat heals a little bit more, the

forces of the, the writing moment forces in the

boat increase and the boat speed increases, which

means that the drag increases. All of these forces

are in balance, but they're dynamically imbalanced.

And I think that that's a better model. And if

I start talking about that in your life, the

idea that work -life balance is actually dynamic.

And that might mean that one week, yeah, we are

at the office 60 hours, and maybe we do miss

a couple of family things. But then, okay, like

if it's dynamic, then let's see what system can

we put in place to kind of bring that back through

center, and then go back to, well, maybe we're

going to balance a little bit more on the family

the next week, right? get a day off or something

like that or a lot of hard charging entrepreneurs

I work with sometimes find that the work just

overtakes everything and now I haven't been on

on date night with my spouse in two months and

so it's like okay well let's just realize that

work -life balance is not static it's dynamic

so let's bring that balance back through center

and let's go and focus on some part of your life

that got the short end of the stick for the last

two weeks. So just really seeing that things

move. And I think that's also a very useful mindset

as well, just to know that things do move. So

when I'm working hard one week, it's not going

to be forever. It's just now I'm going to get

this project taken care of. And then next week

I will focus on family or my health or exercise

or whatever it is. That phrase, this too shall

pass, right, is sort of part of that. Things

are dynamic, things move, things shift. Yes,

that was very good. That was another very good

one too. And that was exactly what we've been

talking about, just reiterating. Okay, so the

final question is, imagine the next economic

downturn hits tomorrow. What inner capacity separates

companies that adapt from those that panic? And

how should listeners start cultivating it today?

What comes to mind is there is an amazing story

that's told in the book Good to Great that Jim

Collins wrote, and it's about Captain James Stockdale,

who was a naval aviator during the Vietnam War.

I think in 1965, if he was shot down over Hanoi,

in Vietnam and he's parachuting down into Hanoi

and Captain Stockdale was a student of Stoicism

and he was apparently as he's recollecting as

he was parachuting down to the city, the hostile

city below, he was saying I'm entering the world

of Epictetus. Epictetus was a slave in Rome whose

master broke his leg capriciously just because

he could, because he had that power over Epictetus.

And so telling you all of this has a long background

because these are all external circumstances,

right? And so Captain Stockdale ends up in prison

in Hanoi for seven years. And one of the things

that came out of that lesson was something called

the Stockdale Paradox. And the Stockdale paradox,

because he came to sort of see why some people

survived being prisoners of war and some didn't.

And what he really learned is that the thing

that got him and the other people who did survive

through this incredible experience was that they

never, ever, ever gave up hope that they were

going to prevail. It's the people who gave up

hope that didn't make it. He could see that there

was some people that have been in prison, and

this is how he's relating the story. And they

would think, well, we're going to be out by Christmas,

where they've got that idea from, who knows,

but we're going to be out by Christmas. And then

Christmas would come and go, and they wouldn't

be out. We're going to be out by Easter. And

then Easter would come and go. And they would

give up. Some people would give up hope. And

then they perished. So they never, ever, ever

give up hope that you're going to prevail. got

through. Now the second, the paradox, the Stockdale

paradox is that you cannot ignore the brutal

reality of the circumstances that you currently

in. He was in prison and Hanoi, all of the things

that were going on there. So never, never, never

give up hope that you're going to prevail and

you cannot ignore the brutal reality of the circumstances

that you're in. And I think that that mindset

can help business owners In these deep economic

downturns, there's a lot of uncertainty and other

things going on. Just never lose hope, but you

can't ignore the brutal reality. If revenue's

gone down 75%, well, the brutal reality of that

is we're going to have to readjust. We're going

to have to trim staff. We're going to have to

reduce inventory. We're going to have to close

the second warehouse, whatever. You've got to

address the brutal reality of the circumstances.

You can't just be a fantastical hope that, oh,

we'll just ignore it and everything will turn

out. No, you will prevail, but you've got to

address the current circumstances. And I think

that if people can hold that mental framework,

it helps them get through these downturns. Yeah,

you can become anything, anything you want, no

matter where you are, even if it's jail, doesn't

matter where. It's all about the attitude and

behavior. Steve, thanks for steering us past

the surface tactics and into the deeper waters

of who we're being. You showed that when leaders

recalibrate their inner compass, whether through

positive intelligence, EOS, or the hard -won

lessons of a racing yacht, their culture and

numbers fall in line. Listeners, if today's conversation

made you a bit uneasy, that's the signal to act.

Grow never feels tidy at first. If you found

value here, share the episode with a colleague

who's still chasing quick fixes. Describe on

your favorite platform so you'll never miss an

insight that turns behavior into profit. I'm

Debbie Longo. This is Behavioral Profit, where

we challenge the way you lead so your team can

win with purpose. Until next week, keep testing

your assumptions, keep refining your habits,

and keep turning leadership into your strongest

asset. Steve, thank you for being on the show.

Thanks for having me Debbie.