How Communication and Storytelling Shape Leadership Performance | Danny Brassell, PhD

Welcome to the behavioral profit show, where

we examine the behaviors that drive performance

leadership and sustainable growth. This podcast

is about what moves people to act inside organizations,

inside businesses, and inside themselves. Today's

conversation focuses on one of the fastest ways

behaviors translate into results, how people

communicate, persuade, and connect in ways that

lead to real outcomes. Today I'm joined by Tony

Brassell, a high sought after speaker, trainer

and coach, often referred to as Jim Camp Carey

with a PhD. Danny has spoken to more than 3 ,500

audiences worldwide and is the author of 21 books,

including Leadership Begins with Motivation and

Misfits and Crockpots. As co -founder of Well

-Crafted Story, he helps entrepreneurs and organizations

use storytelling and speaking as a direct client

generation tool that converts. Good afternoon,

Jim. Welcome to the show. How are you, Debbie?

Thank you so much for having me and thanks for

spreading some joy around the world. We need

a lot more of you. Doing good. Is there anything

you would like to add to that intro? Well, if

I was going to write my autobiography, it would

probably be called Pivots because I feel like

I've already lived nine lives. Thirty years ago

i was a journalist covering president bush senior

in the nineteen ninety two presidential election

i love my job i got to meet every editor every

major daily and one editor offered me the city

beat for sixteen thousand five hundred dollars

a year meanwhile a friend told me they were hiring

teachers in south central los angeles for twenty

five thousand dollars a year so debbie. I became

an educator for the noblest of reasons, for the

high pay, and I actually fell in love with teaching.

I've taught all age levels from preschoolers

all the way up to rocket scientists. I can make

that claim because I used to teach English as

a second language to engineering students at

the University of Southern California. And in

2005, my wife and I attended a real estate seminar,

which turned out to be a scam, and we lost everything

financially. And I could give you the woe is

me story, but I'm a positive person. I learned

a lot from the experience. First of all, and

my wife is my soul mate. I put her through the

wringer and she stood right by me. She's an incredible

person. Second of all, I learned money's not

everything because you can lose money just like

that. Third, I try not to judge other people,

Debbie, because if I was somebody who saw what

I had done, I would have said, well, you deserve

that. But now I realize, unless you know everything

about a person, you really don't know anything

about a person. Fourth, I became a Christian,

which I'm always embarrassed to confess it to

the catastrophe. But the more I read the Bible,

I realized I'm not the first screw up to find

Jesus. And fifth, most importantly, I didn't

want to file bankruptcy. And my accountant said,

well, you have to earn this much more money this

year then. So I started speaking on the side,

and I hit that number right on the number. Well,

the next year, Debbie, he gave me a much higher

number. And I get that number right on the number.

So in year three, I thought, well, maybe I should

set a higher number. And basically during one

of the worst economic downturns in American history,

I was able to build up a highly lucrative speaking

business, which eventually attracted the attention

of some pretty famous people and companies who

wanted me to coach them. And I have to be honest

and tell you, I resisted for a long time because

you need to know this about me. I'm obsessive

compulsive. I will not let you fail. I will be

on your back holding you accountable until you

succeed. Well now that i work primarily with

entrepreneurs executives and business owners

i find that they're highly motivated they do

the work and it's probably been the most gratifying

thing i've ever done so there's a long answer

to your short question debbie. Thank you very

much so it sounds like you are at your bottom

and you pick yourself up. And you became extremely

successful from those lessons and. things that

you've learned and you didn't let the outside

forces affect you and you were able to excel

in your business regardless of what was going

on around you. Yeah, I didn't let my worst moment

by my story. I continued this story. That's why

I love the movie Rocky. Everybody loves Rocky

because he takes the punch, but he gets right

back up. So this is the type of stuff that I

teach is that we can excel and we could do good

in our company or position, regardless of what

happens outside of us and even the way that we

feel we can easily turn this around. And it's

all by getting rid of negativity because it sounds

like your theme of everything that you said and

your like the plot to your story was that you

remain positive. the whole time and you knew

that you could succeed and that's one of the

reasons why i do these podcasts because i wanna

explain to people that we don't have to be negative

and we don't have to let a recession and people

quitting at my job. If I'm like an executive,

we don't have to use those as excuses that our

company is failing or I'm ready to file bankruptcy,

different things, because my attitude and what

I'm thinking and what I do with those thoughts

affect my actions and they affect what I do.

And that affects other people too, obviously,

but That's really my thoughts and my behavior

and my personality. That's really going to determine

what the outcome is going to be, whether it's

a job, a company, a position, my home, getting

a career, just talking to my neighbor. And that's

all stuff that I teach. And i one of the reasons

why do these podcast is i do a lot of different

industries so i wanna think about people who

are in all different types of industries all.

Compiles all these podcasts all equal behavior

and how. Does these different industries affect

your behavior? But it's really all the same thing.

So if a person's focused on that, then they might

say, oh, this is about AI. This is about helping

entrepreneurs, because I did a few on AI. And

then I'm in that business. I'm in that industry,

whatever. And then they go on and they could

relate to that because they really listen to

it, because that's what they see. That's what's

attracted to them. So this is very, very good.

I like this. Danny you often say that speaking

is the fastest way to grow a business from a

behavioral standpoint what is happening in the

audience that makes life. Or spoken communication

so powerful compared to other forms of marketing

well of all people it was joseph stallen who

said. A million people dead is a statistic one

person dead is a tragedy translation facts tell

the story cell fax inform but stories transform

and. Most of the people I work with, while I

do work with certain people that are speakers,

most of the people I work with, they either they

have no interest in speaking or they're completely

terrified of speaking. And we use speaking as

a tool to get clients because there's only one

way we measure your effectiveness as a speaker.

I have people come up to me and say, hey, Danny,

I got a standing ovation like good for you. Or

they'll say, Danny, people, they have a great

speaker. I'm like, that's wonderful. The only

way I'm measuring our effectiveness, though,

is how many people in your audience decide to

take the next step with you. Now the next step

can be an unpaid next step like subscribe to

my podcast or a vote for me. More typically for

entrepreneurs to pay next step like buy my product

or invest in my coaching program. All we want

to do is figure out how many people in your audience

are actually taking that next step with you.

You need to know your numbers. And so that's

always my aim when I'm working with my clients.

Yes I agree with that. And this is basically

what we were just talking about. and being aware

of what's going on around you so we're talking

about how the behavior is affecting my audience

and communication and different things so these

are key things because i want to be able to understand

how to talk to my audience or my clients or whatever

because this is my bread and butter. And this

is what's going to make my company go. It's going

to make it go forward. Not only does it give

me a paycheck, but I have X amount of employees

that paying. So it's a, it's a big responsibility.

So that was very good. What you said. Next question,

you develop the 5C framework, clarity, connection,

content, call to action, and close. Where do

most leaders or entrepreneurs break this framework

without realizing it, and what does that cost

them in results? That's a great question, Debbie.

I mean, actually, I'd say most people break all

five of the C's. So I'm a former teacher, so

you have to bear with me. Everything I do is

either alliterative or it rhymes. And so the

five C's that you talked about are the clarity.

Before we put together your presentation, we

have two clarity questions. And you'd be amazed,

95 % of my clients cannot answer one or both

of these questions in a succinct manner. Those

two questions are, who is your audience and what

is the problem that you solve? Once we have a

clear understanding of the answers, to those

questions, then we can create that well -crafted

story beginning with connection. Connection is

key. If there's one thing I would stress to your

audience is stop bragging. Not everybody in your

audience has succeeded, but they've all failed.

So the more you start talking about your own

failures, the more your audience is gonna see

themselves in you, which is what you're trying

to do to ultimately connect. I always say when

you're connecting, you gotta rap. What's your

name ryan so rap stands for relatable authority

and purpose relatable i've had that exact same

problem that you had on just like you. Authority

and i solve that problem. Purpose and now i'm

on a mission to help people just like you so

you don't have to suffer the way i suffered if

you can do that in the first five minutes your

presentation you're on to some presentation goal

the content portion of your presentation is the

longest part of your presentation and ironically

it's actually the least important because. former

educator everything i do has to be based on research

uh... statistics show that people remember the

beginning and the end of the talk they don't

really remember what comes in between and so

what they do remember is if you're helpful so

one of my mentors when i first started speaking

with a guy named jim trellis he's no longer with

us but jim was great he used to train parents

how to read aloud to their children and all the

sudden in the middle of his talk he'd say oh

oh I got something that's gonna save your life

sometime. If you ever lock yourself out of your

car, as long as you have your cell phone, call

your spouse, have your spouse put the keys next

to the cell phone. You put your cell phone next

to the lock on your car door, it'll unlock the

car door. I've actually tried this from 3 ,000

miles away, Debbie. It works. It wouldn't work

with a newer car like a Tesla, but I had a Toyota

Corolla and it worked. Here's the point. This

has... Nothing to do with his talk, and yet I've

seen people approach him saying, oh my gosh,

I tried that once, you saved my life, I've been

telling everybody to cook you as a speaker. It

has nothing to do with his talk, but what he's

done is he's established trust. He showed people,

I can help you. It didn't matter that it had

nothing to do with what he was talking about,

because. This is a person that's helpful. And

then we get to the call to action and the close.

And the call to action, this is a mistake I see

people make all the time. They have multiple

calls to action. Remember this, former teacher.

Choices confuse and cause you to lose. If you

look at grocery store chains around America,

the top chains, Public, Food Lion, Kroger, Safeway,

Ralph's, whatever, they're not the number one.

food chain in America. The number one grocery

store in America based on volume is Trader Joe's.

And the reason is when you go to one of these

major grocery stores to buy some mustard, there's

38 different types of mustard to choose from.

When you go to Trader Joe's, there's one. It's

called mustard. They made the choice for you.

They're making the decision, which is important.

So I was on a podcast yesterday and the hostess

at the end of the podcast, she said, I hope you

enjoyed today's episode. Make sure you like,

subscribe and give us a five star review. After

we got off the air, I looked at her and I said,

you just asked your audience to do three things.

They're not going to do any of them. You need

to be very clear in your call to action. Now

what's the difference between the call to action

and the emotional close? Well, you have to understand

there's two types of people in your audience.

I'm going to be stereotypical and say it's the

husband and the wife. The husband is who I call

Joe Friday. He's the guy sitting there. During

your talk with his arms crossed, he has this

attitude about him. He's like, how much is this

going to cost? What do I got to do? How long

is it going to take? In a very clear presentation,

make sure to address the answers to all of his

questions. But too many people make the mistake

of ending on their call to action. If you end

on the call to action, you've ignored potentially

50 % of your audience, which is the wife, who

I call Julia Roberts. Julia Roberts, she doesn't

care how much it costs. She just wants to feel

good. The reason I listen to Debbie's podcast

is she always makes me feel good. She's like

my long lost sister. I feel so intimate with

her. If you can address the needs of both of

those people in your audience, you will have

a higher conversion rate. Yeah, so that was good.

Thank you. So if I am an entrepreneur or an executive

and I do these five things or I practice them.

Every day or sometimes multiple times a day i'll

probably have a very successful business. Because

you know why this is a system it's really all

that is is i mean this what you described but

it's a positive way of going about my day or

going about my. Goals that i need to accomplish

for my business or something like that or the

job duties or something. So this can outline

the way that my company operates in like a hundred

different ways because you explained what they

are. But to me, I could kind of like tailor make

these to me, to my organization, to the way that

I work, what the needs are of my company and

even of myself as an executive. Because we're

going to say these things and these things are

very good and these five things and we're going

to describe them But we don't know the actual

person that's going to use them and we don't

know what organization they're in What kind of

business it is? So in other words, it's good

to be general like this because it's easy for

them to make it to be their own To work for them

to work this in their organization Because to

me, if something's too specific, then it gets

really confusing. And the person will only go

to the negative and say, these are interesting

points that I could use for my business, but

this is not me because I don't know how to make

this, you know, how to conform this to my business,

to my position. So this is the thing. So this

is why. These things a lot of times and these

things like i said these are very good i can

make i can probably make a whole entire business

based on these baby based on these five things

but to me it works good. It might work normally

but to me it would work really good if i could

make these my own and then personalized let's

just put it that way if it's gonna be me it depends

it could be the whole company i don't know whatever

it is. You discussed all these that if we don't

do this or if we don't we're not aware of these

things then. We're just basically going into

the negative because this is a positive way of

developing a business however you wanna use it

i'm just giving an example. If we don't do this

or something else that's gonna give me like a

positive framework then that's just gonna bring

me into the negative that's the whole thing so

these things are very good i really like it.

What i admire about your podcast is you always

steered back to the positive but i was watching

this horrible show on tv last week called the

news it put me in a very negative mindset. One

of my friends is no longer with us a great speaker

by the name of keith harrell keith harrell said

a lot of people say garbage in garbage out like

that's not garbage in garbage stays but i also

believe if you feel people up with positive thoughts

those days well so. I just brought basically

one of the things i think probably distinguishes

the way i work with clients compared to a lot

of so called speaking coaches they they like

to. Get their clients to focus on the most negative

experience of their life there's three reasons

why i refuse to do that debbie first of all the

world just survived a global pandemic everybody

said a lot of bad things happen to i don't think

we need more sad stories i think we need more

uplifting stories of hope second of all i'm teaching

my clients how to create what i call a well -crafted

story politicians would call the stump speech

you can call it peanut butter and jelly doesn't

matter this is a speech that you deliver again

and again it's really it's gonna become second

name. to you like the Pledge of Allegiance or

the Lord's Prayer. Do you really want to talk

about the worst moment of your life again and

again and relive that? I mean, I have a friend,

his daughter was killed in a school shooting.

He's delivered that speech over a thousand times.

I mean, you have to be a lot stronger than me

to talk about the worst day of your life again

and again like that. And third, and this is where

people get angry with me, I have one objective

when I'm on stage. i want you to leave feeling

better than when you came in i want you smiling

laughing happy i think there's something admirable

about that as a basic objective i believe the

people tell the same sad story again and again

by the twentieth time they're telling it now

those are crocodile tears and now they're being

manipulative and i'm not saying it's not an effective

sales strategy it's actually a very effective

sales strategy but i personally do not want to

take a shower once i get off stage because i

just completely manipulated my audience. There

are ethical ways to get people to want to do

business with you. In an age, everybody's infatuated

with AI. I also believe in AI, but I don't believe

in artificial intelligence. I believe in authentic

intelligence. And the way you demonstrate authentic

intelligence is by connecting with people through

their failures, not through their successes,

through their failures. Yeah, that's very good.

All good things. You spoken openly about losing

everything financially after real estate seminar

scam and rebuilding through speaking. How did

that experience reshape the way you tell stories

and connect with audiences today? Brene brown

is one of my favorite speakers and she talks

about your showing your vulnerability and i believe

in vulnerability but you have to make sure you

put some distance between you and the event it's

one thing i hear people don't make jokes about

president lincoln being assassinated they make

that joke in two thousand twenty five it probably

wasn't so funny in eighteen sixty five you have

to separate yourself a little bit from the tragedy

that's why i really like. Working with clients

on childhood stories because all of us were goofy

as kids we all felt uncomfortable we all made

mistakes and by sharing those types of stories

but showing that we were able to grow from them

i think is a good example when i was a. First

grade teacher the stupidest thing i ever said

as a teacher i told my kids once i said alright

kids right about your lives. They look at me

like i'm from outer space like only six nothing's

happened to us and i'm like oh no things happen

to you all the time i mean when i was in first

grade i had this this teacher she called me stupid

one day smack me on the hand got me crying for

the rest of the class so next day i was walking

to school i had an apple i peed on the apple

i gave her the apple she ate it and said it was

the best apple she'd ever had. My students like

that is awesome this is also the reason i never

accepted food from a child but i always tell

kids. I tell this to teachers if you want your

kids to give you stories you gotta give them

stories but a story I'm working with a gentleman

right now who swam with sharks in Madagascar

he's climbed the highest peak on all seven continents

he did the Iditarod in Alaska and I look at him

like nobody in your audience can relate to you

nobody in your audience has climbed Mount Everest

what's a good story Everybody in your audience

pee their pants when they are in first grade

that's a good story what you're trying to do

is to connect with people not to separate yourself

from people a lot of people make this mistake

they think that they have to show how extraordinary

they are when they're on stage and so they brag

so for example. I worked with a financial planner

a few months ago richard and richard the way

he gets clients is twice a week he has these.

free steak dinners at a fancy restaurant for

about 15 couples who were in their 50s or 60s

that are thinking about retirement. He tries

to get them to book a complimentary consultation

with him so he can get them as clients. And out

of the 15 couples, he was averaging about six

of the couples would then book an appointment.

And out of those six couples, maybe one or two

would actually hire him as their financial advisor.

The way he used to start his presentation, He'd

say, my name is Richard. I've been in the industry

for 30 years. I've made my clients over a billion

dollars. I've worked with this famous person

and this famous person. I said, time out, Richard.

What are the three most important elements of

real estate? location, location, location. It's

all right to brag, but you're doing it in the

wrong part of your presentation. So we re -crafted

his presentation. So now his opening, he talks

about the very first client he booked 30 years

ago. And it's just this comedy of errors, all

these things that he did wrong. I actually have

no idea why the person invested their money in

him. And here's the thing, and he noticed it

immediately. He said the next day, he's like,

oh my gosh, Dan, you're a genius. I'm like, what

do you mean? He said, there's usually the guy

sitting there who doesn't care what I'm saying.

You just look skeptical. Now that I changed it

to that story, the same guy is patting his knee.

He's laughing so hard. He said, I went from six

people booking an appointment to last night,

I got 12 of them to book an appointment. We want

to move hearts, but we want to also want to move

the needle. And the way you do that is by sharing

stories with intention. That's the difference

between a good speaker and a great speaker is

I like to reverse engineer things. I'm trying

to figure out what are the emotional connections

I want to get from my audience and how to create

a story that's metaphorical, that puts people

in that state. Yeah, that's very interesting.

And also one thing I was thinking of was the

sounds kind of obvious. But a lot of people miss

it. It's all about the presentation. How good

is your presentation? Because that's going to

show me or a potential client or whoever what

you represent, basically, and what is going to

attract me in that presentation that you're making.

Now, you're talking about exactly how to do it.

When the process but everybody it's probably

a little different it's not gonna be exactly

the same so i wanna make sure. That it's done

like you were just giving this example with this

gentleman i wanna make sure that it's done in

the proper way in the way that's really gonna

attract my clients whatever based on what it

is cuz i'm sure it'll be different with each

person each industry. That way, it's going to

benefit for me because if I'm just saying anything

or I think I'm saying something that is right

and it's really not because I don't have any

professional advice or somebody to talk to, somebody

to bounce things off of, and I think I'm saying

the right thing, then I'm going to lose money.

When I'm gonna lose clients and also what you

were saying to sounds to me like That gentleman

and other things you said in the past to were

based on ego So they're bragging and that to

me is not a good way Not only to start a presentation

but to have in your whole entire presentation

Because to me, I mean maybe somebody would like

that but in a way It's going to read the result

is probably going to be like it's a turn off

because then the people are going to realize

that it's they think it's only about themselves.

The person who's giving the presentation, it's

only about themselves and they're not there to

help the client and help this one in that one.

These are very, very interesting things that

we're talking about here. The next question,

many professionals believe they need more credentials,

slides or data to be persuasive. Based on your

experience, what do they need less of and what

should they be focusing on instead? Will it definitely

not don't need more slides i say get rid of the

power point altogether if you are gonna use the

power point get rid of the words i because walt

disney said people think in pictures and to demonstrate

this you do watch the news which i don't anymore

so i'll give you also i'll talk about peter jennings

who's been passed away for twenty years but when

peter jennings is talking about a war if you

ever look in the upper right hand corner the

screen there's a picture of an explosion. So

that's making you realize he's talking about

the war. People think in pictures. I can demonstrate

this right now. I'll do this with you, Debbie.

Take about five seconds. I want you to imagine

an apple. Your five seconds begins now. Describe

the apple that you thought of. It's red and it's

round and it has a stem. Great. Great people

talk about red delicious apples i've had people

describe a granny smith apple or a fuji apple

some people get even more creative they say they

thought of their apple computer or their ipod

but in years of doing this with audiences i've

never once had a person say oh i thought of a

p p l e. Because we don't think in words we think

in pictures and so if you're gonna use a powerpoint

thinking pictures the reason i'm a big believer

in stories actually look at the bible for this

i always laugh when i read the bible cuz i'm

like wow jesus is just a frustrated teacher because

the apostles just weren't getting anything he

said so he's okay let me tell you a story i bet

you. Nine out of ten non christians are familiar

with the story of the prodigal son they're familiar

with the story of david and goliath they're familiar

with the story of the good samaritan. But i also

bet you nine out of ten christians cannot tell

you the ten commandments because it wasn't presented

as a story it was a powerpoint saw a slide with

ten bullet points people don't remember those

types of things they remember stories in terms

of credentials. People worry about their credentials

here's an injured i'll share a ninja strategy

with your audience is write your own introduction

because somebody else is going to introduce you

and so when your introduction make yourself sound

like jesus christ. If you're introducing me debbie

i'm you gave me a wonderful introduction wow

that makes me sound really good so that when

i get on stage and jesus christ forgot to wear

his dress socks today. Now people at oh he's

just like me i don't think you have to do a lot

to demonstrate that you're an expert from the

stage the fact that you're on the stage already

tells the audience implicitly that you are an

expert and most of the people i work with they're

terrified of being on stage and like you were

saying debbie it's a skill. You just gotta get

in your reps the more you do it the better you'll

get and you're in good company barbara streisand

vomits before she goes on stage for every performance

president reagan used to vomit before every speech

he gave bill russell the center for the boston

celtics used to vomit before the basketball game

there are people that have severe stage fright

all the time but by repeating the performance

again and again they at least are able to build

up the skill which is something i guarantee you

the very first time you. did this podcast, Debbie,

you stunk. And the second time you did the podcast,

you stunk, but you probably didn't stink as bad

as the first time. And now you've been doing

it for a while. You're now a finely tuned machine.

You're getting the hang of it all the time. And

that's the same thing with speaking. So I didn't

really prepare myself when I started doing podcasts

because that's not a thing I do in my business.

I don't prepare anything. Everything comes from

me, from... Some place and then that gives me

the thoughts some type of higher being or whatever

that's how i do it so that's why i don't prepare.

But when i first started it was like this and

then that. Because i wasn't you regardless of

i knew what i was gonna say i was nervous and

i wasn't. So wasn't the words the words came

out fine in the end but they didn't wait to practice

like you saying. So did you ever hear of less

is more sure sometimes like when i do these podcasts

i say let's try to do thirty minutes or thirty

five minutes because i've had podcast that went

like over an hour and i don't want it to be something

where i mean if somebody listens they'll probably

turn it off in the middle anyway but i don't

want it to be no they'll just get what they need.

But I don't want it to be something where it

just drags out because then when I was listening

to them They're good podcasts. We had a great

conversation, but it just dragged out because

I listened to it like a few times after we do

it and stuff and After I publish it and it just

dragged out and it didn't sound good So that's

what I'm saying. So and what you're saying too

is true. Do you talking about because These things

might be good for somebody, but it depends on

how you present it. It depends on if you want

to say your credentials, say them quickly. Don't

make this big thing out of them. So that's what

I'm saying. So some of these things like these

tips and names of things and different things

that we're talking about here, maybe people can

use them. We're giving our take of our own experiences,

but maybe somebody could get something out of

this in a different way than what we're saying.

I think a lot of people, they think their credentials

are important. I say the longer your introduction,

it probably means the less important you are.

I was at a the other day and they gave about

a three minute introduction for this guy. The

most effective introduction I've ever heard was

only four words long. Here's what it was. Ladies

and gentlemen, Oprah. It's pretty that shows

a lot of credentials Yeah, because people think

because a lot of times from my experience to

people think that they want to make a name for

themselves and they want to tell everybody their

whole life story and then their Introduction

and their credentials and stuff are like literally

like a half hour. Yeah, and nobody wants to hear

that that's not the proper way to make a presentation

that's not going to be attracting. So that was

good. So the last question for leaders who want

to use storytelling ethically and effectively,

how do you balance authenticity with persuasion?

So it drives action without feeling manipulative.

Wow, that was a great question. I love that.

Well, Again you want to be helpful your audience

is giving you their most precious asset their

time and so i think you have a responsibility

to serve your audience i'm a big fan of donald

miller has a wonderful company called story brand

and it's basically his message is what you and

i've been talking about he says hey your job

is to be the guy to make your audience into the

hero it's not about you it's about them people

that are uncomfortable with selling stop selling

start serving. It is a totally different mindset

if you look at your audience is if they are dying

and you have the antidote and if they don't get

your antidote they will die you're gonna be able

to be much more effective in your presentation

well that sounds like it's just make it just

very convincing. And make it so that they you're

really selling selling it. You're selling yourself

your behavior your personality your organization

your brand whatever so another thing i could

do is like about the presentation just sell it

quickly format in words phrase it in a certain

way that like you said like. I introduce opera

to frame it in a way that is so convincing that

it's just. It's just not a lot of words, you

know, so it's more like that's why the less is

more. It's really about quality instead of quantity.

But the thing with that is balancing authenticity

with persuasion without feeling manipulative.

So that kind of sounds like it sounds like two

positives. And then we're talking about that

equaling a negative. So how does that not equal

a negative? I know you just explained it, but

that's kind of the way that showing because the

way that I'm explaining because I want two positives

to equal a positive and two negatives are going

to equal a negative, which obviously is what

we're trying to avoid. This was interesting because

these are important points that we're talking

about here in this question, but we want to make

sure That and from my experience that the follow

through and the result of whatever this presentation

is or if you write a book or anything we want

to make sure that the follow through is not only

gonna come together like a story like a presentation

could be even like a short story something like

that. But we want to make sure that the follow

through and the goal and the plot or whatever

is gonna equal. The positive result or what positive

thing comes out of it. That's the thing. So,

and then I could go backwards and I could say,

well, it equals positive. So let me put a few

positive things in front of that because I don't

want to talk about the first sentence is going

to be negative. You know, Oh, I got up. I'm here

in front of 200 people and I'm very nervous and

I don't know what to say when I feel like I'm

going to vomit or what. Is that like a very positive

statement to open with the first thing that you

say? So so that's why I want to really be prepared

and make sure that somebody's really going to

help me because like I said, these are very good

points that we're making. But how do we activate

these things? How do we make this? How do I make

this whole podcast? Everything that we said,

how do I turn this into my own? And that is really

to me that's the big overall thing that we overall

question overall thing that we're trying to make

here because i want to be able to show this to

somebody and use this like a coach like me and

i can use this and i can say okay let's talk

about these things but how does this how is this

gonna work for you i know it's probably kind

of a little different. than what you're talking

about because you're talking about them specifically.

And there's nothing wrong with that. But I want

to know how this can work for anybody. That's

the thing. There's a great book called influence

by robert chaldini i encourage everybody to get

it because he talks about the difference between

influence a manipulation manipulations based

on a lie if you look at influence based on truth

the only way you should ever present anything

to an audience is if it's a win for them and

win for you if it's not a win win don't do it

so that's the easy the easy rule of thumb right

but i need somebody that's gonna help me i don't

wanna make. These decisions on my own, I don't

want to think they're okay because sometimes

my thinking doesn't work out too well. And that's

really the bottom line. Okay, so Danny, thank

you for sharing both your expertise and your

personal journey today. Your work reinforces

a critical point for leaders and business owners.

Growth is not just about information, it's about

influence, clarity and connection. For listeners

who want to go deeper, we'll include links to

Danny's work. and its free story guide in the

show notes so they can continue learning how

to communicate with impact. If today's conversation

resonates with you, it's because behavior always

comes before results. Communication, leadership,

and influence are not soft skills. They are performance

drivers. Thank you for listening to the Behavioral

Profit Show. If you found value here, Follow

the podcast, share the episode, and join us next

time as we continue breaking down behaviors that

turn efforts into profit. Thank you very much,

Danny, for being on the show. I really appreciate

it. Thanks, Debbie. Take care. God bless.