Leading Through Change: Empathy, Trust, and Communication That Protects Performance | Linda Carlisle

Welcome to the Behavioral Profit, the show where

behavior drives performance and performance drives

profit. I'm your host, Debbie Longo, executive

behavioral coach. On this podcast, we look beyond

surface level strategies and focus on the behaviors,

communication choices, and leadership patterns

that shape culture, performance, and long -term

results. Because when leaders change how they

lead and communicate, everything downstream shifts.

Today I'm joined by Linda Carlisle. Linda is

a culture and communications advisor and the

founder of com .ext LLC. She works as a fractional

corporate communications partner, helping organizations

navigate high stakes moment such as mergers,

reorganizations. leadership changes and workforce

transitions. With more than 30 years of corporate

leadership experience, Linda specializes in change

management, internal communications and building

cultures rooted in empathy, trust and psychological

safety. This conversation focuses on how thoughtful

communication directly impacts engagement, resilience

and performance, especially during disruption.

Good afternoon, Linda. Welcome to the show. Thanks,

Debbie. Hi. Glad to be here. I have some questions

here. First one is, Linda, you worked in what

you call the moments that matter inside organizations.

From your experience, what typically goes wrong

with communication during periods of change and

why does it so often erode trust and engagement?

When I talk about moments that matter, these

are the inflection points that can be within

a... person's career with your company, where

what you do and how you handle the situation

as a leader can have all the difference in terms

of how they view you, how they view their workplace,

how they view each other, the culture, how committed

they are, how engaged they are, how much they

trust you, whether they believe you care about

them. And those things all matter when it comes

to performance. So I think a lot of times what

happens is during periods of high Change leaderships

under a lot of stress. There's a lot of moving

pieces. There's more balls than normal in the

air and you got to keep the lights on also day

-to -day work still has to happen. But all this

change is going on and what happens is the leaders

are just sort of like Gotta do this gotta do

this gotta do this and they're just sort of like

i'm hitting the nails i'm doing the things i

can be communicated with you people you have

communicated they're not thinking they're not

taking the time to plan out the communication.

With understanding of people and how they take

at the heart of it so really thinking through

what do i need to communicate when do i need

to communicate it. how is this change going to

impact the people across the enterprise and certain

functions? And so that you're, you're really

taking the time to build a communication plan.

Number one that extends throughout the entire

change, but then number two, so that you're conveying

to your people that you feel them, you understand

what they're going through. I think sometimes

I hear people talking about the soft skills and

I'm like, there's nothing I believe very strongly

in leading from an empathy standpoint actually

feel like empathy is a superpower to leadership

superpower because. Means you understand your

people and what makes them tick and you can resolve

their concerns take their concerns off the table

help them trust that you're being transparent

with you with them and telling them what's really

going on and when that trust and care is there

then they're not feeling concerned they're not

coming to work worried about. am i gonna lose

my job today am i gonna lose my job tomorrow

is somebody gonna move my cheese and so i just

think that notion of planning how you're gonna

communicate and what you think the concerns that

you need to address for your people oh and oh

by the way you can maybe get 90 percent of the

way there just by being empathetic and thinking

about how is this change impacting people that

last remaining 10 percent that's all about listening

so listen to people Hear their concerns address

their concerns. Tell them what you know, and

you don't know and Just just feel like if you

can take out all the uncertainty People talk

about what's in it for me and they usually mean

what's good What's in it for me and there are

sometimes with changes there is a good what's

in it for me But a lot of times there's a shoe

over their head They feel like there's a shoe

over their head and that shoe is the what's in

it for me So how can you address some of those

concerns so people can go? and just like get

on with their day. So I feel like I rambled all

over the place, but it really comes down to empathy.

It's gotta be embedded. Yeah. That was very good.

Thank you. I appreciate it. There's a few things

that came up there. There's one thing that I've

been talking about over and over, probably for

every single podcast out of the 35 that I've

made so far. And that's if what does the business

owner and executive want to do if they really

want to make their goals and dreams? Do they

want to do something to change? Do they want

to do something to improve their performance

at work? to help their employees grow and not

act like they're the only ones in the company

that are thinking and their employees are robots.

And whatever the executive or business owner

says is what goes and that's it. And empathy

and nothing else, nothing matters. except for

what that business owner does. And a lot of times,

and I've worked with tons of business owners

like this, and what happens is that they grow,

they get good, their profits increase, they start

making money, maybe they go onto the stock market,

their stock starts raising, and then their egos

start building. And that's exactly what happens.

And everything that you just said now went out

the window. Completely went out the window. And

that is this is another reason why do this podcast

is because i want to explain. People can see

maybe they can relate to what you're saying and

your title because they can relate to something

they might not know how to relate to the behavior

or understand what you're talking about. So they

relate to something about you or about the podcast

a word or something like we were talking about

keywords and then they start listening and then

they say wow this could be me maybe maybe not

maybe i'm curious. Maybe I should call Linda

or Debbie and see if maybe this pertains to me

like that so it's really it's also like it this

is like a space to talk and stuff but I also

like to make it like an educated thing where

like you're opening your awareness of your mind

like that. yeah because people don't have to

be stuck they can constantly be meeting their

goals and dreams they could go to the other ends

literally the opposite end of the earth and that's

them okay i stop myself i still myself nothing

stalls me. If I don't stall myself, I'll keep

moving forward like a hundred miles an hour for

the rest of my life. You know what I mean? And

this is just my experience, my own personal experience

from people that I've worked with. And this is

really why a big reason why I do this. What's

interesting what you were talking about about

companies growing and the As the company grows

the leader gets more and more divorce from the

day to day and maybe they think they're the only

ones that that are thinking but. You're hiring

good people and those people are learning is

there going as well and they're learning is there

growing as well and with that learning comes

the expertise at each level in the organization

and i just i feel like number one. People today

kind of expect to be developed and have that

learning and growth. That's part of the deal.

It's part of the transaction. If you take that

out of the equation, you are not going to keep

people. You are not going to get the best and

brightest people. So really like leaning into,

yes, I'm going to grow my people and I'm going

to acknowledge that growth and learning. And

part of that is then saying, I don't need to

be this executive who has all the answers at

every layer in the organization. This change

is happening. It's going to have some cascades.

How do I draw on the knowledge at every level

of the organization? And drawing on that knowledge,

number one, helps those people feel safe and

valued and care for and like they're important

in their knowledge. matters and that turns around

in terms of commitment back to the company they

take pride in being able to help be part of the

solution for how we're gonna navigate this change

and turn things around so and then in turn there's

a loyalty that comes from that and people stay

longer and things like that so I just I feel

like you don't have to be you don't have to be

the answer man for every layer in the company,

what replaces that knowledge at lower levels

is this capital L leadership. Some people have

taken that word off of the pedestal that it really

deserves to be on, and leadership is not just

pointing at the hill and going, that's not leadership.

Anyone can point at the hill. Leadership is understanding

what's going on in your people's head and figuring

out how to swage their fears and inspire them

to take that hill with you. And that's what makes

your business possible. That's what makes the

growth possible. You didn't climb that hill by

yourself. Your people did it with you and leadership

is what makes that possible. So it's the capital

L leadership. It's not just like, hey, let's

march. Anyways, I have a lot of passion around

that topic of leadership and how it's getting

over yourself enough to say, I don't have to

know all the things. My people know all the things.

I have to know how to get that out of my people.

Very good stuff. Next question is you emphasize

leading with empathy and building a caring culture

layer by layer. What does that look like in practice

for leaders who are under pressure to move fast

and deliver results? When I think about empathy

and what it looks like and we're all under pressure

and we've got to keep moving and you might be

part of Acquisition where you've got numbers.

You've got a hit for private equity investors

There is a lot of pressure in growing a business

but the thing is that the organizations that

hit their numbers they eliminate communications

issues they look for and work through cultural

sticking points and friction points that are

slowing the team down. Every Navy SEAL, arguably

you could say some of the highest performing

teams in the world are Navy SEALs and these military

teams that have really trained together and have

created a bond amongst each other's where they

have each other's back and they're performing

at their... absolute best. And you want your

team to be like that. And for your team to be

like that, they have to trust each other and

they have to care about each other. If you don't

trust each other, if you don't care about each

other, why in the world would you have each other's

back? Why would you take a risk on each other's

behalf? You have to know I'm going to take this

risk and Joe's got my back or Joe's taking this

risk and I've got his back and here's what I'm

going to do to help him succeed and I'm going

to answer him and help him be better and he's

going to trust that I mean for him to be better

and that's all based on trust and care and you

get to that level of trust and care by understanding

people, being transparent, helping people see

the mission together, see where you're going,

help everybody understand their part in that.

And so as a leader, that is your job is to have

empathy about where your people are at and what

they're feeling and what's standing in the way

of them being their best and knowing that you

care enough to invest in their development and

helping them grow so that they can be their best.

and make that next level and achieve that higher

level of performance. And when people know that

that's what the culture is about, that we trust

each other and we're really committed to trusting

each other and we're committed to caring about

each other, any other cultural element you build,

if you've got that trust and care base, you have

what it takes to be that high performance team.

But it can take months and years to build trust.

And it can take seconds to kill it by saying

something the wrong way being in insensitive

about something like a layoff and how it's impacting

people So it's just it's just you have to realize

when you have that energy going and that trust

and care engine going, that's gold and you need

to do everything you can to protect it. And so

that's why I'm so gonzo about empathy because

empathy gives you the information you need to

build a trust -based culture. Yeah, so that's

a very interesting concept. Thank you for that.

I could look at both together and I could also

look at, we talked about empathy, but I could

also look at trust separately. And then like

you explained, and then we could put them together.

And then, so the point is that to build trust,

like you said, takes a very long time, but here's

the thing. The biggest products that we buy,

think about that, okay? We have built a trust

in them. They have developed a way so they could

build a trust in the public. And then what happens?

The public now buys their product. Go to the

supermarket. Look at the stuff that you buy.

Think about why do you buy this brand of cereal?

Why do you buy this brand of yogurt? And there's

a reason. It's not because you just randomly

pick this brand out of the 25 other brands that

are on the shelf in the supermarket. That's not

the reason. And this is where we get into a little

bit of psychology. I'm not a psychologist. I

don't practice that. I don't have any degrees

in that. So that's the first thing that I want

to say. But that is an extremely important thing

in any type of business, any type of sales. Now

you're going to mix. And like you said, it takes

a long time, but there are ways to do it. but

that costs money. But you're going to mix now

the trust with the empathy, right? Now that really

accelerates it. They feed on each other. Exactly.

And when that happens, what's going to happen

now, that's just probably going to make trust

stronger. And that's going to make your product

more sellable. You're touching on something that

I think is really interesting. So turn on the

way back machine for a moment in my career. I

started my career in marketing communications

very much in love with the topic of brands. So

I really focused my career, first half of my

career on how do you build external brands, enterprise

brands and what goes into that, the layered messaging

that goes into that. Over time as my communications

career grew. I started doing internal and external

a mix of the two Really in that corporate comm

space where I'm leading marketing comms But I'm

also called in when we've got major change or

acquisitions or whatever And then you know helping

to do due diligence on companies We're acquiring

and things like that And so I kind of started

to see internal meets external and I came to

this conclusion that they really are It's like

a yin -yang and internals one half of the equation

externals the other half of the equation and

the line running through it is Your customer

experience and so when you talk about values

and you talk about Purpose and you talk about

trust and care you're really talking about quality

on the outside like if you aren't a person who's

built values and purpose and trust and care you

can't possibly deliver a a great customer experience,

a great sense of values. I care enough to do

the right thing by this customer. I care enough

to create a high quality product. My people are

empowered to solve things when concerns come

up from the customer. So it's the same. It's

care. It's quality. It's what are your values?

What do you stand for? What is your purpose?

How do you give back to the world? Those things

are all what matters in building an internal

culture and internal communications, but they

create a dynamic where the people are delivering

services the same way. And then that creates

a sense in the consumer that this is a place

that's trustworthy. So it's what you were saying.

What makes you buy X products, X products, Y

products, Z. because that company has built an

entity, a culture within itself that delivers

high quality experiences, that delivers trustworthy

experiences. So I don't think you can get to

high quality customer experience and delivering

consistently on the brand promise if you're not

also creating a great employee experience that

is Creating it within people that will to do

the very best they can and deliver the very best

so very good. That's very true. So next question

is you made a significant transition from external

communications into internal communications.

How did that shift change the way that you think

about purpose value and high performance behaviors

inside organizations? It really does come back

to that notion that I think what you build internally

is very, very much drives what you're able to

deliver externally. So the amount that you invest

in your people enables them to create and innovate

and create solutions for customers. The amount

that you empower your people allows them to address

customer needs. I think one of the things that

I became aware of, and this is a growing problem

really, is here in America we have an epidemic

of disengagement. It's like over, it's like in

the area of 70 % of the workforce is disengaged.

And depending on what age group, demographic

group you're in, between 40 and 50 % of the American

workforce, it has a grievance. So if you're a

grievance based, disengaged, like you don't get

to those numbers by most companies that doesn't

apply to them. No, you get to those numbers because

most companies that applies to them. So what

is the antidote for this epidemic? And I think

what's happened over time is leaders have given

up on the capital L leadership and putting that

on a pedestal. That's one thing. And then at

least since the eighties, we've had this culture

of like disposable people. Like we just go didn't

get your numbers this month do a layoff and i'm

not saying that layoffs don't have to happen

you have to you do have to size your business

for what your revenue is because otherwise you

won't have a business so i'm not saying those

things don't have to happen but how you do those

things and doing it in a way that. is showing

people that you're still that you still have

those same high value to still. Have a sense

of the humanity of the people that are on your

team and you're you're making changes with that

sense of that humanity in mind you're doing what

needs to be done with that sense of humanity

in mind i think that's really essential to keeping

your culture trusting and caring and that is

again in term. What drives a quality external

brand experience so external brand internal brand

they are the same thing I guess I'll say one

other thing which I feel like this is a piece

I need to write and I haven't haven't really

written in is probably Time definite like I should

do it a certain time of year, but I guess I sort

of think like if you think back to the movie

It's a wonderful life. What character did you

want to be when you watch that movie? And what

character do you not want to be? And we've kind

of become a culture that some companies, that

equation's been turned on its head. The character

we least wanted to be when we watched that movie

is exactly where a lot of businesses are coming

from. And I think we got to get back to the point

where. We're understanding that humanity is at

the heart of leadership and that when we lean

into that, we get better results from our people.

Our people are more inspired. Our people are

more engaged. They're excited to do the work.

They believe in the work and they feel like they

have a purpose when they come to work. They're

taking pride in what they do and all of that

manifests in business growth. That's how you

create a high performance team. Yeah, that was

good. Thank you. This just talks about. things

that we have just been talking about in these

previous two questions. And I want to create

something that's 100 % totally positive for me

and my workforce all the time, whether it's right,

whether it's communication. I'm the type person

I like to strive for 100%. It's probably impossible,

but I still do it. I'll say this, like take something

like a layoff. Layoffs have to happen. They do

have to happen. You lose a major customer Something

happens the economy your sales drop Precipitously,

you can't afford to keep your payroll at a certain

level So yes layoffs have to happen. Is that

positive? No, that's not positive But how you

treat people as you are laying them off can are

there things that you can do? that signal to

them That you still see the humanity in them

and you're trying to help them as much as you

can through this period of transition Taking

those steps help keep the integrity of the culture

you've built in place So it may not be a positive

thing that's happening but what's positive about

it is that you're leaning into the integrity

of being trustworthy and showing that you care

about the humanity of the people and then The

people who are staying will see that because

they talk to each other and they post how they

were treated. So I think it's just very important

to be mindful of that. You may not always have

something, you may not be delivering news that

is going to make people dance in the streets,

but how you deliver bad news is just as important

as how you deliver good news. So next question

is psychological safety is a term leaders often

hear, and it's really operationalized. What specific

communication behaviors help protect psychological

safety during disruption without lowering performance

standards? I touched on a second ago, but that

idea that you're helping people who are the most

impacted by any change, be it a layoff, be it

a reorg, new technology, what have you, you're

addressing the concerns of the people who are

most Most impacted and then your your communicating

the way that keeps their humanity intact and

and signals that you care about them as a person.

Being transparent people can cbs a mile away

so don't try and tell a story that's not true

story tell the true story what is happening why

is it happening especially for the people are

staying if there are people who are being exited

because of a layoff i think. They have a very

limited amount of attention span for the big

back story so you want to get to that pretty

quick but you still want to tell them what's

happening and why so they realize it's not about

them. What's i think i've seen that recently

where major brand name company blame the people

being like that laid off for their only off my

no. Bad strategy. It all comes back to bad strategy,

so no. So blaming people for their own layoff

is not good. But so coming through, being transparent,

answering people's questions, telling them why

it's happened, what's happened, what you don't

know, what the risks are, what you're going to

be looking for, what the success on the other

side of this look like. Bring them along for

the change with as much Just open this as you

can and then including them in the solution because

i think a lot of times like especially with layoffs

sort of like. Well we need to keep all the same

things going but we've got twenty percent fewer

people is that realistic. Even with AI, is that

realistic? So how do you work with them to say,

what needs to stay? What could go? What can we

do more efficiently? Drawing on that knowledge

base that we talked about earlier, where the

closer to the front line in any given department,

the more they know where the bodies are buried.

So they can tell you, we can do without this.

We can do this 20 % easier. This is essential.

And then, you know, cause you can't, at some

point you can't keep layering more work on the

same workforce, right? Because eventually something's

going to give and it's probably going to be your

best people as soon as the economy turns. So

I just, I think those things, the whole psychological

safety thing is addressing all of their concerns

and including them in the solutions. Yeah. So

that was good. As far as psychological safety

is exactly what you said. But what kind of feedback

do I give and what are these people saying? My

employees and everybody else and how am I interpreting

what they're saying and do they have a say? Do

they have an opinion in what's going on as far

as psychological safety? And if you're not listening,

that's the point. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

So that's what we're trying to say here. But

how am I delivering the message? Is it positive?

Is it negative? I could find the positive in

anything, anything. It's all perception. It depends

on how you look at it. It depends on how you

view it. And if you can't find the positive,

then ask somebody else and they'll find it for

you. that's really the bottom line and if i don't

want to do that then oh well this is how i'm

gonna be you know what i mean i'm gonna live

a life of sick and suffering if you don't want

that's fine with you then that's fine with me

i don't live that life that's completely up to

the individual not me i think during a period

of change if it's a positive change like a like

a business process that you're completely redesigning

or you're putting in new technology systems or

something to make your business more efficient

ai I think that there is a positive story. It's

just that there's going to be some new learnings

and letting go of old ways along the way. So

I think in those instances, there is definitely

a positive that a North star that you want to

aim people towards and hopefully you've built

enough of a bank of trust with your people that

they believe you that there's a there there and

you're not just going, yeah, transfer all your

knowledge to AI and then bye bye. Like so you

if you felt the trust with your people they're

gonna be like oh i can be so much more efficient

this company is gonna rock in a year because

we've put these new tools in place to get us

there and so i think that you want to keep putting

deposits into that into that trust bank but again

there are some kinds of changes like a layoff

there there may not be. a net positive other

than we feel like we've made the changes we need

to get through this difficult economic period.

And so it's a positive story, but it has so much

negative attached to it just because of the nature

of the change. It's hard to frame it as positive.

That was good, thank you. If leaders listening

today could make one immediate change in how

they communicate during change initiatives, what

would have the greatest impact on engagement

and outcomes? Yeah, I think at the end of the

day, if they could change one thing, it would

be this coming from the place of leading with

empathy. I think that if you change that one

element, just... Remember that we're all human

beings and every change is going to impact people.

Some will be positive and positively impacted

inherently. Maybe they're getting a promotion

or a new opportunity or something like that.

And some are going to be net net neutral and

some are going to be. negatively impacted by

a change having the empathy to know what what

is likely to be unfolding here. And here's the

thing that I've said to leaders as I'm talking

to them about like how to wrap their heads around

the tone or the feel of communication. Imagine

it's your son or daughter that is experiencing

this change and they're coming to you and saying

this is happening at work. What would you want

their leadership to have said to them? How would

you want that leader to have handled that change

communication and you're gonna like lean into

the empathy for your son and daughter when you

think about how you're gonna communicate change.

Nobody else in your organization deserves any

less so the sort of a magic wand that you can

be testing yeah it all comes down to. How you

really want to think about it how you want to

view it. It's your choice and if you want to

consider that that it's just like. If your children

were in this situation what would you do so if

i am asking. Contractor or somebody that i need

to do work on in my house or advice for something

else a professional i asked them. What would

they do they would tell me and then I would say

if you were me What would you do and some of

them will say well if you were my daughter or

you were my wife This is what I would say to

them like that. And when somebody says that I

Know that my interpretation is that they are

really true and genuine and trustworthy people

and they're not just there to take my money.

I personally know the difference because I know

the businesses, but that's neither here nor there

because a lot of people don't know, don't know.

So, and I have tons of evidence of that. But

the point is that these are really good, very

important things that we're talking about here.

And this discussion has been good because maybe

somebody could relate to this. any one word,

anything, a key word or a sentence or anything

at all, and they can listen and then they could

get different ideas that we're discussing here

on this podcast. Try it out. What can it hurt?

You've got some things coming up. Try thinking

about it from this lens as you're preparing your

communications for a change and try it out and

see how it lands. Try it out and see how people

respond to you. Very good. Thank you. Before

we wrap up, where can listeners learn about your

work and connect with you? Sure. So I'm sure

we'll put this in the notes, but my website is

www .comcom -ext .com. I also love it when people

connect to me on LinkedIn. Connect with me. Let's

get in the dialogue. respond to my post, make

comments. I love to have things be interactive.

And then I publish a newsletter on LinkedIn called

Moments That Matter. And so please feel free

when you do link to me on LinkedIn that you subscribe

to Moments That Matter. Thank you. I really appreciate

that. Linda, thank you for sharing your insight

and experience. This conversation highlights

how communication is not a soft skill, it's a

performance driver. For those listening, you

can find Linda's website and LinkedIn information

in the show notes. If this episode helped you

or rethink how your leadership communication

shapes culture and results, be sure to subscribe,

leave a review, and share it with someone leading.

through change right now. This is Debbie Longo,

and you've been listening to Behavioral Profit,

where behavioral awareness creates sustainable

performance growth. Thank you, Linda. Thank you

for being on the show today.