Septemics: Jim Marshall’s Revolutionary Model of Human Behavior

Welcome to the Behavioral Profit, the show where

business meets behavior. I'm your host, Debbie

Longo, executive behavioral coach. And each week

we dive into the mindset shifts, leadership strategies,

and cultural behaviors that drive higher performance

and greater profits. Whether you're leading a

team or building a business, this is your space

to learn how human behavior fuels business success.

With me today is Jim Marshall, a polymathic.

intellectual who has devoted over 50 ,000 hours

to the study and practice of multiple dimensions

of human development. He received a classical

education at a Jesuit military school, was accepted

into engineering school while still a junior

in prep school and attended college on academic

scholarship. He graduated college with a bachelor

of science cum laude. While still an undergraduate,

he began the study of alternative arts and sciences,

which today would be described as transformational

and holistic. Eventually, he became a professional

practitioner, and after 28 years of formal education,

had a long career as a human development engineer.

He has successfully worked with hundreds of clients

as the inventor of septemics and several conscious

expanding systems. Good afternoon, Jim. Welcome

to the show. Thanks, Debbie. The first question

is, what is your area of expertise or main focus

and what topic or area do you focus on professionally?

The short answer is septimics, which is something

which I created by myself from scratch. It's

an entirely new subject. Although there's another

longer answer, which is that I'm a polymathic

intellectual who is an expert in about 20 different

subjects. Can you expand on that a little bit?

The polymathic part? Yeah. Well, my areas of

expertise include psychology, philosophy, theology,

parapsychology, science, engineering, mathematics,

law, literature, history, metaphysics, military

science, political science, physical culture,

education, human potential, organization and

music. Interesting. Can you think of an example

about how this would pertain at all to any type

of behavior? or workplace or meeting goals or

expanding in your business or being more of a

helpful employee or more of a successful executive

or business owner. Let me give you one sentence

by way of context and then I'll try to flesh

that out. I am the discoverer of hitherto unknown

natural phenomena which greatly aid in the understanding

of people from which I created a revolutionary,

practical, philosophic system called Septemmix.

And published in the book, Septemmix Hierarchies

of Human Phenomena. Literally, the word Septemmix

means of or pertaining to seven. Septemmix comprises

a collection of scales or sequences, each of

which breaks down various human phenomena into

a hierarchy of seven steps. There are 35 such

scales, each of which is unique. And between

them, they span the spectrum of human experience.

By which I mean, Any problem dilemma difficulties

situation that any person has has anything to

do with people can successfully be analyzed by

one or more of the September scales usually more

than one. So this is of absolute relevance to

all humans. Interesting. I like it. And for me,

that sounds like I'm changing my behavior. I'm

changing my mindset, whether it's September.

any other type of thing that I do or practice

that I want to move forward with, I'm changing

my mindset from negative to positive and just

know that I can do it. Because the thing is,

if I don't want to be helped and if I don't want

to change, how successful am I going to be at

that? That's really the bottom line. The next

question is, what challenges or transformations

have defined your professional journey? Well,

that depends on what part of the journey you're

talking about. I started school at the age of

three and I've been involved in education my

entire life to this very day. I was a remarkable

student because I have no memory whatsoever of

a time in which I was not intensely interested

in learning everything taught in every university.

Of course, that's impossible because nobody lives

that long, but the drive was there. I loved school.

I wanted to learn. So for example, when I was

in college, I would take the maximum load, which

was 18 credits. And then evenings and weekends,

I would study at other institutions. Or when

I was in elementary school, I would come home

and do my homework, and then I would read books

taken out from the library. So I was really a

natural born polymath. I was good at all subjects.

The fact that I had a photographic memory probably

helped a lot. And so eventually all this led

me to becoming a polymath, although I was not

aware of that until recently. If I had not been

a polymath, I would not have been able to discover

septimics because only a polymath would be able

to see it for what it is. It's so big that most

people would not be able to see it. They would

see the tree rather than the forest. I was able

to see the whole forest. And so I created an

entirely new subject from scratch by myself.

And it's a subject that is life changing and

earth changing. If you want to stay the way you

are, don't read my book because it will change

you. That's good. Yeah. So I like all of these

different ideas and practices and tactics and

all these different ways. that we can do things

because the bottom line is I don't want to if

I'm not doing great and maybe my company's on

the verge of bankruptcy or maybe my personal

life even is in shambles. There comes a point

where I need to do something to change. I can't

keep doing what I'm doing and expecting to have

different results expecting to say things will

be good this the next time. When I know they're

not good now and I know that they won't be until

I do something to change something just a little,

you know what I mean? Even a little bit is better

than nothing. So this is very, very good what

we're talking about here. So what would you like

the audience to know about you? Well, I've kind

of said enough already about me. I had a long

career as a human development engineer. where

I used engineering tactics, strategies, ideas,

devices, approaches to help individuals attain

higher levels of equanimity, responsibility,

ethics, capability, et cetera, depending on what

the person wanted. And I did that for 40 years.

And over the course of 40 years, the septemic

data just presented itself to me for very specific

reasons. For one thing, I was able to get results

on my clients similar to what we would get in

psychotherapy, successful psychotherapy, but

orders of magnitude faster. And because of that,

I was able to see the whole panoply of dynamics.

For example, a guy, let's say he can't get along

with women, so he goes into therapy and he sees

a therapist once a week for a year. And at the

end of the year, he's better. He's improved.

I could do that to somebody in 20 minutes. So

when you're looking at this guy who comes in

once a week for a year, you don't really get

to see what's going on because it's so slow.

But I would be able to improve the people so

fast because of my sophisticated use of biofeedback

that I could see the whole dynamic right in front

of me. So what would happen is the person would

come in and I would observe that he was at a

specific level. on a specific scale that I had

previously observed and recorded. And as a result

of our interaction, you go up to the next level

on that scale. Now, that happened many thousands

of times, maybe 8 ,000, 9 ,000 times, I don't

know, over a 40 -year period. Now, this was valuable

scientific information because as a result of

the fact that the clients had no idea what I

was doing or how I was doing it, there was no

placebo effect. and there is no power of suggestion.

I never suggested anything to anyone, but I knew

how to ask the right question. So basically what

I used was Socratic dialogue aided by biofeedback.

So I did essentially the same thing Socrates

is described as having done 2 ,500 years ago,

except by using biofeedback, it was dramatically

foreshortened because of my understanding of

electronics. and how they manifest in a human

being and show up in biofeedback. And so I was

able to see these phenomena and record them.

Now, by 1995, I had actually just observed and

recorded about 32 scales. There's no theory of

subtimics. And around that same time, I was thinking

about a difficult client that I had, and I had

this one scale that I had developed. It had six

levels, and I knew it was correct. and I was

trying to assess this client against the scale.

In other words, if you spot what level the person

is at, that brings an understanding of specifically

what's going on with the person. I couldn't get

anywhere spotting this person on this scale.

Then I realized after a while, there is a seventh

level hole. That's why I couldn't spot it. This

person was at a level that I had not previously

observed. As soon as I spotted what the level

was, I understood the client perfectly and I

knew where to insert it into the scale. When

I inserted that seventh level into the sixth

level scale, at that moment it manifested mathematically

and it went from being a line to a plane, meaning

a scale is a line and there's a whole plane of

data, a whole body of data. intersecting, interlocking,

interacting mathematical phenomena about this

scale. Now, having taken 26 semesters of math

and loved every minute of it, when math appears,

I recognize it. So I saw, whatever the hell this

is, it has to be natural law because it's got

math embedded in it, like, for example, the Fibonacci

sequence or Newton's three laws of motion. they

are inherently mathematical. And that means whatever

this is, it has to be natural law. So then I

thought, wait a minute, I wonder how many of

these other scales that I have are seven level

scales that hadn't been developed all the way,

because I wasn't developing anything. I was helping

my clients and making notes. So knowing what

I was looking for, I studied all the other scales.

And in a short period of time, somewhat to my

surprise, they all went to seven levels. And

when they did, they manifested mathematically.

So now I suddenly have 32 seven level scales

about different areas of human phenomena, all

of which had seven levels and were mathematically

based. And then I said to myself, having gone

to school for 28 years, I never saw anything

like this. This looks like a new subject to me.

Then I thought, wait a minute, I could go from

helping people by the hundreds, which is what

I have been doing as human development engineer.

to helping them by the millions. I've had put

this in a book and get it out so that people

can have it and benefit from this. So I'm going

to have to write a book. Well, the first draft

was finished in December of 95, and I immediately

sent it to colleagues of mine, all of whom had

graduate degrees and a variety of subjects. And

they all loved it. They had differing responses,

but distinctly positive responses. And that told

me that this was exactly what I thought it was,

which is a new subject that people would get.

And the reason they get it is it's natural law.

So like, for example, when you look at the Pythagorean

Theorem, when you first see you maybe 12 or 13

or 14, doesn't take too much to figure out that

it makes sense and it works. And then you've

got it for the rest of your life. That's what

this was like. So somebody is in a bookstore

and he sees on the shelf a book, Septimics. He

says, what the hell is this? He takes that, he

opens it up, and he'll say something like, Oh,

this makes sense. And the reason it makes sense

is it's natural law. Now, several people said

to me, what book is your book like? And I have

to tell them in all candor, I don't think there's

ever been a book like this before, at least on

Earth. But every one of these 35 scales is expressed

in what you could call a table or a spreadsheet.

That table is very similar to the periodic table

of elements, except instead of it being for matter,

the 79 elements that Mandalay have eventually

worked with. It's about each of these 35 different

subjects of human affairs. So, for example, the

area of relationships. There are only seven basic

levels of relationships. And when you look at

this, you can see not only that that's correct,

but why it's correct and why it cannot be anything

else. So this is what happens to those of us

who study math and physics. Once you see the

formula for the volume of a sphere, there's no

arguing with it. There's no controversy. You

might have somebody who's too stupid to understand

it, but it is axiomatically true. And it was

true before Earth existed, and it will still

be true after it no longer exists. That is what

these scales are like. I just happened upon them

because of the nature of my work and because

I had this polymathic understanding. of all of

these different areas of life that I could see

how this made sense. Well, after my colleagues

responded positively, I said, I then spent the

next 25 years working on this book, because first

I had to discover the phenomena. And I pretty

much told you already how that happened, although

I did find three more scales as I was writing

the book. Then I had to take that data and had

to use it to craft a workable philosophic system.

Now, as an engineer, like all engineers, I'm

only interested in facts and results. To engineering,

opinions and beliefs are utterly irrelevant.

So I had to create a system that would work every

time for every person. That took 20 years. And

the most time consuming part of this was expressing

this in a way that makes sense to the average

reader of English. And I know I succeeded at

that because some version of this book has existed

now for 30 years. And I have been watching people

get this. You don't have to be a college graduate

to understand this, because it's natural law.

You look at the periodic table the first time

when you may be 13, and there's this big thing,

and it's a little overwhelming, but you say,

wait a minute, hydrogen is one, helium is two,

lithium is three. Oh, I see. It goes down horizontally

and vertically, and everything interlocks. which

is why, since Mendeleev wrote his version of

it, we've discovered 50 more elements, approximately,

and just kept fitting it in. Because it works.

It's axiomatically true. So I can guarantee you,

when we get to other advanced planets, they're

going to have their version of the periodic table.

They're going to have their version of the Pythagorean

theorem and Newton's three laws of motion. And

that will open the way for us to translate our

language into their language immediately. We

call it hydrogen, and they call it shirignibob.

We just translated a word, you see? And because

you can't become a sophisticated civilization

without having these things. I mean, what was

the human race like before Newton? It was grim.

So, you know, What did Hobbes say? Short, brutish,

nasty, brutish and short, something like that,

life in those days. So all of this advancement

came about because the father of physics gave

us the three laws of motion. And then he invented

calculus so that we could make calculations about

it. So that's sort of what this is about and

where it came from. Interesting. Thank you very

much. To me, it sounds like a little bit of mixing

science and theories and behavior. And the result

is I'm changing and growing and whatever my goals

are, whatever the specific instances or problems

or whatever. So it's very good. This is all very

interesting because to me, I didn't know what

septimics was right before I met you, you know,

and the way you're describing it. is not something

that's common to me. It's a little foreign only

because it's something you invented and it's

not something that I'm very familiar with. That's

all right. So by doing this podcast, I'm learning

and I'm growing and I'm listening to what you're

saying and I'm understanding it for the most

part, just by the way that you're describing

it. So the thing is, if somebody, a listener,

for example, wants to know about this further,

or they're curious, or they know that it can

help them, or they think it can, they're not

sure. You might have answered these questions

already, but I just want to ask again so you

can think about this in relation to what I just

described. How is September beneficial, significant,

and is it for everybody? And if you could give

me not a really short answer, but more of a direct

answer, I would appreciate that. How is it beneficial,

significant and is it for everybody? The last

one is the quickest one. Yes, it's everybody.

In other words, it cuts across. It applies to

all humans. So it cuts across all demographic

barriers. How it's beneficial. There are three

basic ways it's beneficial. I wrote this book

to help people. Each of these 35 scales. provides

the user with an infallible way of determining

the salutariness or the beneficialness of any

group individual activity. If the group individual

activity moves persons up the scale, it's beneficial

or positive. If it moves them down, it's detrimental

or negative. So I am giving you a yardstick by

which to measure human affairs, which is an entirely

new thing. More importantly, just finding out

what level you or another person is at on any

scale is inherently beneficial because whenever

you find the correct level, you have a realization.

So for example, let's say you have trouble with

your brother -in -law. So you say, let me see

where he is on this scale of basic purposes.

Well, you know the guy because he's been driving

you nuts for 10 years. So you study. Oh, I see.

That explains why he does this, this, this, this,

this, this, and this. You're having realizations

about it. Your relationship with him just got

better because you're understanding him now with

specificity. Then once you know the actual level

at which you or another person is at, you can

improve that person by moving them up one level

at a time. One of the axioms of this subject

is that you can never skip a level. It's absolutely

impossible. Think of it this way. If you're on

the first floor and you want to go to the fifth

floor, One way or another, you're going to have

to go through the second, the third, and the

fourth, whether you take the stairs, the escalator,

or the elevator. And this is actually beneficial

because if you spot that you're at level three,

your path forward is to go to level four. That's

it. If you try to get to level one or two, you

will fail because it's too steep a gradient.

If you try sincerely to get from level four to

level three, you will eventually succeed. because

it's the next level up. I'm giving you the gradients.

So each of these scales is a roadmap for success

because it tells you the seven levels relative

to that specific area. So for example, let's

say in the scale of equanimity, that's a big

deal. People who don't have equanimity do very

badly. They get in a lot of trouble. So it's

advantageous to move yourself up that scale.

and get to the top of the scale. And you can

do it whatever level you find yourself at. You

target yourself for the next one. Eventually,

you will get there. How long it takes, what you

have to do, all that is a while variable because

everybody's different. That answers how it's

beneficial. Now, how is it significant? The data

in this book is vital for every human and can

help you to achieve your goals faster and easier

by explaining what might otherwise seem to be

inexplicable or random. So everybody has problems

and dilemmas and situations and difficulties

that they can't resolve. This book, if you have

a problem or dilemma or situation that involves

people, definitely opens the way to resolving

that problem. So let's say you have a marriage

that's on the rocks. If you have two people that

read this book, the husband and the wife, and

apply it, they will resolve that marriage. So

think of it this way. It's very hard to get anywhere

if you don't know where you're starting from,

where you're going, or how to get there. So when

you find your level on any one of these scales,

you're finding out where you are. The next level

up is where you will go if you succeed. So you

throw out the other five levels, they're not

relevant, and you focus on getting to that level,

and you will get there because it's the next

level up. So I have solved the gradient problem

that has bedeviled people. The reason people

can't solve these difficulties is because they

don't know the gradient. That is what experts

do for you. So, for example, I've worked as a

trainer. Guy comes to me says, Jim, 100 pounds

of weight. I can't fix this. Can you help me?

Sure. So now I have to find the gradient for

this guy. I don't know what he can do, what he

can't do. So I'll talk to him for a while. And

then I might say. Here's this 15 pound dumbbell.

Let's see if you can curl it." So he starts curling

it. And I say, how does that feel? He says, I

can do this all day. I say, fine, stop. I give

him a 20. How does that feel? This is a little

difficult. How many can you do? I can do maybe

13. Stop. I want you to do 13 reps on each arm,

three sets every day. And at the end of the week,

we'll talk. So at the end of the week, I say,

how did you do? If he says, I'm really sore.

This is tough. Just keep doing it. If he says,

this has gotten quite easy for me, I'll say,

good, let's go to 25. It's finding the gradient.

That's what I did for my clients for 40 years,

finding the gradient and then getting to the

next level up. And that next level up is that

data is in the book. In other words, I memorialized

all of this. So there are 35 different areas

and each of these is a pathway to success. because

I'm giving you the gradients. Very good. Thank

you. That was very interesting. I really liked

that. I will definitely be looking into it more.

So you wrote a book, Septimix Hierarchies of

Human Phenomenon Analysis, Prediction and Management

of Human Affairs by Jim Marshall. And I have

the information here. I will post it available

for Amazon, Barnes and Noble and Author House.

So is there anything that you would like to say

in closing or any type of message or anything

that you want the listeners to take away from

this conversation that we've just been having?

Well, as far as the book, it's a very easy book

to find. If you just type the word September

into a search engine, you'll get hundreds or

thousands of responses, including all the people

selling the book at the bookstore in Dayton,

Ohio. So it's easy to find. But I want to invite

your clients or your listeners to the website,

septemmics .com, S -E -P -T -E -M -I, where you

will see what many readers have said, what many

journalists have written, what the reviews are.

You can read sections of the book itself. And

there's even a pre -recorded audio called Introduction

to Septemmics that you can listen to that will

explain the subject to a new person in 15 minutes.

If you do all of that, you're probably going

to want to buy the book. because this is relevant

to all humans. There are categories of people

who are below it, morons and mentally ill people

and psychopaths and people like that who are

not ever going to read this book. But about half

of the human race is interested in improving

oneself or other. It's for them if they can read

English. Yeah, that makes sense. And that's exactly

what I teach, too. So it's very, very similar.

It's only a different form. It's only toward

a different way you know and that's one of the

reasons why i do this podcast is to. Help people

to open their minds about all of the different

ways and ideas and things that are available

to help people because there are so many different

ways and stuff and that. Really gives a people

a broad range and see if they could identify

with that if they can identify with something

somebody said there's got to be something During

the course of their life that they could identify

with and say I think this might be interesting

I want to try it and that will give them that

gives them the opportunity to change and that's

basically what I'm offering here So a little

bit about you Jim Marshall is a polymathic intellectual

whose areas of expertise include psychology,

philosophy, theology, parapsychology, science,

engineering, mathematics, law, literature, history,

metaphysics, military science, political science,

organization, human potential, physical culture,

and music. To learn more, visit septemics .com.

So the reason why I said that is because that's

gonna... Maybe somebody is interested in one

of those topics. And then they could see that

a little bit about it. Is there anything you'd

like to say quickly in closing that you haven't

already said? Every human being is at some level

on every scale. There are no exceptions. So that

data is just sitting there waiting for you to

access it. Now you can ignore it, but it's much

smarter to use it. Because then you understand

you understand yourself and understand others.

Perfect. Thank you. I really appreciate that

Thank you for sharing both the strategy and the

human touch behind your success listeners If

you found value in this episode subscribe to

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share the show with somebody who's ready to lead

smarter All links to Jim's resources are in the

show notes at behavioral profit podcast calm.

I'm Debbie Longo. This is behavioral profit where

better behavior meets better business. Until

next time, lead boldly, leverage technology wisely,

and keep turning behavior into profit. Thank

you, Jim, for being on the show. Thanks, Debbie.