Carine Van Hee: Toxic Relationships, Emotional Abuse, and Rebuilding a Life Through Awareness and Healing

Welcome to the Internal Shift Show. I'm Debbie

Longo, Transformational Coach. This show explores

how the way we think, decide, and respond internally

influences where we end up over time. Today's

conversation draws on real experience and expertise

to look at how small internal shifts can change

direction, momentum, and outcomes. We have a

very special guest today, Karen. Good afternoon,

Karen. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having

me. Thank you very much for being here. I appreciate

it. Today, I'm going to ask you to tell your

story and point out something in your story that

where you had a life change or a traumatic event

or something that happened to you, where you

went from a negative and you went through the

process and now you came out as a result. So

the end result should always be positive. And

I do this show for a few different reasons. And

one of the main reasons is that everybody has

their own individual story. But there are things

in other people's stories that people can relate

to. Now, if somebody feels stuck or they feel

like they're in a negative situation or a situation

that they don't want to be in or a feeling something

where they want to. They don't want to be in

that space anymore. They might not know that

they can get out of it. They might not know how.

They might not understand that they don't have

to stay in that, that really there's a light

on the other side of the tunnel. And now, by

seeing your story, sure, there's a lot of people

that can relate to what your story is, and I

don't even know it yet. Because a lot of times

we all have very similar stories. And that's

why this is not as difficult as people are going

to think it is. And that is really the most important

reason why I do this. So if you could do that

for me, I would appreciate it. Thank you. Thank

you. Let me just try to think out loud. When

I was about 13 or 14 years old, I always believed

I would never end up in an abusive relationship.

I think we all think the same. The moment he

hits me or she hits me, I'm out. I was convinced.

I had seen it at home, so I thought it was good.

And then when we think of relationships, when

I look at my relationships, when I look back,

I have been in really difficult relationships,

both at work, with friends, in romantic relationships,

so there was something going on there and I didn't

know what it was. And it was when I got... It

took me a long time to discover the hidden system

behind toxic relationships, actually. It was

on a Sunday afternoon when I got a text message

from my brother who said to me, mom is not doing

well. And so I'm Belgian, but I'm living in Norway.

So I took the flight home. And it was only when

I was sitting next at my mother's death, but

actually that I for the very first time in my

life understood that both from, I could feel

it in my body, that there was something wrong.

with the relationship between my mom and dad.

And it was actually there that for the very first

time I understood that she had been in a toxic

relationship for over 65 years. And it was like,

it hit me so hard. I didn't know anymore what

to think, how to feel, how to... It was devastating.

And I remember that I took the plane home and

I was like, I felt like I was intoxicated. I

couldn't think anymore straight. And that's when

I decided I need help now. So I have been in

therapy for several years because of the problematic

relationships I have been in. So I took contact

with my therapist again and said, can we just

have some sessions because this is not going

well. And so I've been in therapy for eight months

again. And once I was in therapy, I understood

I could really, I was in therapy and at the same

time I started to investigate what was it with

my mom and dad that was so strange. and what

is a toxic relationship and what is narcissism

and all that. And as I delved more and more into

that topic, I for the very first time also understood

that I had been in toxic relationships. Because

when you see the pattern, when you dive into

the pattern, you see the pattern, you understand

the pattern, which is complex and layered and

huge. But once you recognize the pattern, you

can actually see how it functions. And this is

why for the first time I could understand, but

you have also been in toxic relationships, Karen.

And this was like what happened to me in that

moment when I understood that the relationship

that I had with the father of my son, that it

was toxic, that it was mental abuse, that it

was a pattern that was being used and it was

a system being used on me. I could feel like

the whole shame. It was like I felt like 20 kilos

lighter. It was amazing. And that's when I decided

I'm going to stand up, I'm going to talk about

the hidden system, because more people need to

know. If this is the effect it has on me, that

I don't feel ashamed anymore, that I can see

clearly what happened, that I can see the devastation,

but also, oh, wait a bit, it's not me. I can

heal. It's something happened to me, but I can

heal about, I can heal. And then it's when I

decided I'm going to stand up, I was hit by,

like I could feel huge anxiety coming up. So

I talked about it with the therapist and I said,

I'm not an anxious person. I've traveled South

America with a backpack when I was 32 years old

as a woman alone. So I'm not an anxious person.

What is this? And then we talked about the fact

that if you have survived abuse, that you can

easily be triggered in anxiety and in fear and

PTSD and all this stuff. And then I said, I'm

going to do it anyhow. because I could feel like

it's a moment in life when it feels like the

universe is grabbing you by the shoulder and

whispering in your ears, why the heck did I give

you all these gifts? It's time to use them now.

I could really feel that pull. And then I decided

I'm going to stand up as a survivor, I'm going

to talk about it, because I could either just

take all the insights and the experiences that

I lived through take it with me in my grave,

or I could at 62, because I'm 62 years old, I

could stand up and just talk about it and not

feel ashamed. Very good. Thank you for that.

I appreciate it. So what was your feelings and

thinking when you recognized all of this abuse

coming? realizing that all of this happened.

Did you feel that you could do something about

it? What was your thinking and process behind

that? Can you elaborate a bit more on that? Yeah,

well, you said you were abused in your early

life. Yeah, my father's in narcissistic behavior.

And then you were abused in a relationship. Mentally.

So between those two times, So we're going to

separate it between those two times. How did

you feel about the abuse? Like, what was your

thinking? What was your feeling? Did you think

that it was normal? What was your thought process

around that time? Oh, I think this is a very

good question, because the first when I refer

to my upbringing, when people have asked me when

I was a teenager, how is your family? I would

have said, I come from a happy family. Because

I had like a loving, caring mom, you would look

into her eyes and you would like feel unconditionally

loved. She was that really warm human being.

And my father was the opposite. He was like analytical,

strict and severe. That's how I thought about

him. I could feel the, when I was like about

20, 21, I could feel that he started to become

more and more dominant. But I saw that like,

this is a generational thing. This is like, this

is my dad's generation. Like he's the father

of, he's the dominant figure in the family. He

decides everything, he brings in the money. So

yeah, I mean, I didn't see that as a problem

and nobody in my surroundings did see it as a

problem. Nor did my siblings see it as a problem.

So we were... we all thought we came from a happy

family. And it's like strange when you discover

that it's not that. So when I then transfer that

into the abusive relationship I was in, when

I was going through the relationship, I could

feel I was confused. I think this is the biggest

word I can use. When it started, we all talk

about love bombing. It started really, really

lovely. I met this human being. He was lovely,

energetic. positive, good vibes, supportive guy.

You had lots of things in common. It was just

wonderful. So when it gradually went down the

road, I didn't understand that. I had huge whys

and I didn't have a language to explain what

happened to me. I didn't understand because I

didn't know about the hidden system behind toxic

relationships. I felt confused. I felt tired.

There was a huge sense of unpredictability. I

didn't know what was coming. And I just started

to ask myself, is this normal? And I just didn't

have any role models. I didn't have a manual.

I didn't have the language to explain what was

happening to me. And I remember that I was asking

one of my friends, it was in the first year,

I'm dating this new human being and this new,

this wonderful man. And I'm just not sure there

was some signs. And she said to me, are you joking?

He's like the loveliest creature I've ever met.

You're so lucky to have him." I said, yes, but

they said, no. Karen, in all relationships, you

have ups and downs. It's just normal. And I remember

I talked to somebody else and she said to me

when I was twice said, no, no, no, no, let me

explain. And I gave her an example. She says,

yeah, but this is a very manly thing to do. And

that was it. So I felt like I was being pushed

back into the relationship and yeah. And then

the system starts and then you get isolated.

And then then it just goes from bad to worse.

So, yeah. Yeah, that was good. Thank you. So,

you know, you mentioned several times about the

therapy. So what made you decide like you were

explaining that you thought that the behavior

in your early days was normal in this? So what

made you go from thinking it was normal to not?

to do staying in it or to saying, I want to change,

I want to do something about it. Right. Now you

mentioned therapy, so I'm sure that was one of

the reasons. But what was your thinking in between

those times? Why did you go to therapy? How did

you choose therapy? Did somebody introduce it

or did you do research? How was that process?

I never went into therapy because of my upbringing,

because I just didn't ring a bell. My father

is a very, very manipulative man, but very subtle.

So it's very difficult to feel it. So I've never

been into therapy because of him at the beginning.

I decided to go into therapy because after the...

So I left the abusive relationship with a baby

of 10 months old. And I was all focused on him

because I wanted him to have a better future

and wanted him to be supported by myself. I just

thought of him, not about myself. It took me

about two years before I understood that perhaps

you should do something about yourself as well.

And it's because I could feel that I was still

attracted to people, to men that didn't seem

like healthy to me. So this was like a really

soft voice that said, but this is not going to

repeat the pattern, Karen. Don't. And that's

where I decided I have to go into therapy because

there's something wrong with me because I keep

on having this tendency to fall for people that

are not my people, that are not healthy, that

are toxic. And that's why I decided to go into

therapy. Good. That was interesting. Thank you.

So I was just thinking of a few things while

you were talking. And sometimes I first want

to say that I'm not a therapist. I'm not a psychologist.

I don't have any schooling or training on any

type of these subjects or careers or anything.

But it's my experience from even my own story,

but working with people, coaching people. and

directing people for 23, 24 years, however long

I've been doing it, is that a lot of times, the

patterns and the behaviors that I grow up with,

I think are normal. And I think that's just the

way that it's supposed to be. And then what happens

then? I model that, then if my mother or whatever

had two kids, now I'm gonna have two kids. And

then I'm gonna treat them the same way. So I'm

doing this I'm repeating the same exact thing

not realizing right until A lot of times is just

one example out of many. I keep hitting a brick

wall so we keep arguing and then the Children

might rebel against me in like a hundred different

ways. So I just keep hitting this negative feeling

that I just I just don't want to treat my kids

like this. And I don't want to continue with

this type of behavior. And it's just a matter

of the willingness to want to change. But to

have the awareness that something is going on

here, there's just something that's just not

right. Even if I think... It's normal i don't

have to necessarily think like. Oh this is not

something i don't want to continue this way or

just a way to identify just one feeling i'm just

angry i'm angry all the time. just to say one

feeling and then to connect that feeling with

a situation or whatever is happening in my life.

And I don't want to feel I just don't want to

feel this way anymore. I don't want my life to

be this way. And there are tons of people like

this. And I have helped and coach tons and tons

and tons of people with these situations. Now,

the things that I mentioned in this podcast,

I don't make them up. These are things real life

things that I have experienced from people that

I've worked with This is not just stuff that

comes out of my brain because so if I can just

do this little bit because I don't believe that

there is any negative situation in anybody's

life and sometimes if something happens we can

always change that into a positive and there

is always a light at the end of the tunnel, but

if I get into a scenario or a situation where

I can't get out and I don't want to, and I think

that it's normal, and I think this is the way

that I'm gonna be for the rest of my life, and

I don't see it as a problem or a negative situation

or an issue or whatever it is, then that is going

to continue until I do something about it. Now,

what am I gonna do? Well, to me... taking action

is always good, like you went to therapy and

all this. But the first thing I have to do is

think. I'm thinking about, I want to get out.

Whether it's like, let's say it's a relationship

or something like that. I'm done. I'm sick of

it. You know, I want to get out. So now I'm making

a decision to get out. And that is part of the

action that I'm doing. And now I want to do some

type of action. So you talked about, I asked

you about the, how'd you get into therapy and

all these things, you explained that process

for us. And that was a very, very good way that

you explained it. But what about for the listener

that is in this situation, I can tell you it's

common, I hate to say it, but what about for

the listener that's in this situation, what are

they gonna get out of this? And I think that

if they just think about, They don't have to

think that it's not normal. They could think

it's normal. But if they just want to say to

themselves for one second, I don't want this

to continue. Just one thought like that quick

thought, then they might be able to help themselves

that way, because it doesn't have to take a lot.

I don't think this life is difficult because

I've been difficult and now I'm easy. So I don't

think it's that difficult. I don't think anybody's

life should be really hard. It's just a matter

of how do I view it? How do I perceive it? How

do I want it to be? Do I want to fulfill my goals

and dreams? If the person thinks they want to

sit in their sick and suffering and that's fine

with them, then that's totally fine with me because

that's a life that they choose. You didn't choose

that life. I didn't choose that life. And that's

really the bottom line here. This is really what

we're trying to to talk about here. How do you

feel right now, right this second, based on everything

that we've just discussed this whole entire podcast,

everything that you said? How do you feel now?

I feel proud that I've come that way, that when

I look back at all the problems that it took

me so long to understand what my life was all

about. It took me so long to see. Steve Jobs

says, you cannot project what your life is going

to be, but when you look back, you can connect

the dots. This is how I feel today. And it's

such a relief that for the first time I can understand

why I am here on planet Earth and how I can be

of meaning to others. And I didn't see that for

a very long time, but it is something else that

struck me in what you said. And it is, I'm going

to make a side thing now, if you allow me. It's

awareness. I think awareness of who you are,

who you want to be, what's happening to you.

Take a breath before you react to somebody, before

you take yourself down. Awareness is key. You

cannot change your life if you're not willing

to stop for a moment. look around you, see what's

happening and being aware of the problem, how

difficult that is. And I know when you're in

a toxic relationship, it's so confusing. It's

like you can't see clear. You have brain fog

all the time because they don't let you sleep.

There's so many things coming your way that it's

very difficult to see clear. But the moment I

was aware of what was happening and I didn't

know I was in a toxic relationship, but I knew

it was triggering and it was not healthy and

because it was it was because I took a breath

one breath before reacting and it was like a

small stop of I'm not gonna react I'm gonna just

see what's happening and that made me that was

like a pause and because of that pause I could

think more clearly because of the thinking more

clearly I could become more aware because of

becoming more aware I could take action I could

decide to go so it was like these very tiny steps

that led up to awareness that saved actually

my life. But how I feel today, it took me, I

think I can almost buy a house with the therapy

that I followed. I also studied again when I

was 45 years old because everything was so confusing

and I still didn't have the answers to all the

whys that I had in my brain. So that's why I

did it again when I was 45. I studied family

science, psychology, where you get all the systems

that family work together or don't work together.

So there's lots of insights in there and still

I didn't get all the answers to my questions.

So this is only when I discovered the pattern

behind toxic relationship that everything fell

into place and that I could feel like Oh my God,

I'm not ashamed anymore. I can decide again.

I can rebuild my life. The wise have been answered.

I'm so happy. And I can be of meaning to others.

I mean, I wish I had somebody like a role model

that I could ask, is this normal? I'm going through

this difficult situation. Is this normal? Can

you help me out? So I'm really happy. I'm just

proud of the fact that I decided to leave and

to rebuild my life and to go and check things

out. I started meditating. I started since I

live here in Norway, I started bathing in the

sea. So it's cold water bathing. All these kinds

of stuff have helped me. It's just like rebuilding

your life step by step by step. But it's possible.

Yeah. Yeah. Very good. That was a very good closing.

And in closing, I would like to say that anybody

can accomplish anything as long as they create

the willingness, the awareness and They take

the action. They take the actual physical action

to do something about it. Because I'm pretty

sure that there are several people around you

that can help you in all different ways. And

now it's just a matter of the individual saying,

I don't want to be in this situation anymore.

I'm sick. I'm suffering. And I just can't take

it anymore. And I have to do something different

because their life can be better. I know it.

I went through a negative, came out a positive.

You did. All my other guests on this show did.

So it's definitely, definitely, definitely positive.

But that is up to the individual to decide. That's

the only person that can decide whether they

really want to live a different life or not.

Yeah. And sometimes just to If I can, when you're

in a toxic relationship, you need help. You really

need help to get out. I tried it on my own and

it's so hard. And because of the fact that what

an abuser does when they feel that you're going

to leave is they're going to start spreading

stories that are not correct. And then you have

people, family and friends that are going to

enable these stories, which make it even more

difficult to leave. And it's going to feel like

you're re -victimized again. So it's really very,

very good to connect with people who have an

understanding about difficult relationships,

toxic relationships, go to a family justice house,

but speak to specialists about it so that you

can get some help and support. Don't do it alone.

Yes, agreed. Thank you for that. So as we close

this conversation is a reminder that progress

really comes from one big decision, but from

the internal choices we repeat. If something

from today's discussion connected with you, take

a moment to notice how those internal choices

showed up in your own life. This has been the

Internal Shift Show. Thank you for listening

and thank you for Karen for being on the show.

I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.