Eric Robinson: When Letting Go Becomes the Right Decision

Welcome to the Internal Shift Show. I'm Debbie

Longo, Transformational Coach. This show explores

how the way we think, decide, and respond internally

influences where we end up over time. Today's

conversation draws on real experience and expertise

to look at how small internal shifts can change

direction, momentum, and outcomes. I'm joined

by a very special guest today, Eric Robinson.

Good afternoon, Eric. Welcome to the show. Thanks

so much, Debbie. I appreciate it. Thank you for

being here. I'm going to ask you to tell your

story and point out a situation or a scenario

in your story where it was a major life change

or traumatic experience or something like that

and what the situation was and the process. Everything

that you went through and the end result and

the end result should always be positive now

I do this show for a few different reasons and

one main reason is because Everybody has their

own individual story, but there are parts to

people stories that other people can relate to

And this is what we're trying to do here. We're

trying to ask the listener if there's anything

here that not only they can relate to, but if

they see themselves in this type of situation,

anything having to do with what we are saying

during the podcast, not the specific thing or

the specific situation doesn't necessarily have

to be that I want to show explain. that there

is no such thing as a negative situation or scenario.

Anything from negative can always come to positive.

And that's what we're trying to explain, because

now I have a whole bunch of episodes where guests

have went through all different things, and it

doesn't matter what the thing is. What matters

is that they went through a process and they

came out the other side. That's the most important

thing. Want to let the listener know and we're

trying to also educate them because maybe they're

in a situation where they don't Understand that

they can get out of it They just don't know they

want to get out of it or maybe they think it's

normal Where this is just how I'm going to be

for the rest of my life and that's it where none

of this is true Anybody could get an anything

as long as I want to as long as I create the

willingness So if you could do that for me, I

would appreciate it. Thank you Absolutely. And

I'm going to take your listeners way back to

the early 1990s when I had graduated college,

grown up in a Christian home, had a precocious

knowledge of the Bible and was growing in my

faith. From there, getting out of college, it

seemed natural to me that I would enter ministry.

So I entered Christian ministry and took the

usual path of getting married. But then being

a youth pastor, then being an associate pastor.

And then the church that I was the associate

pastor in in Western New York said, we'd like

to plant a new church off of this one. I said,

fantastic. I'd like to do that. And so we started

a church that was meant to be a church of outreach.

We didn't want to just shuffle Christians from

one place to another. We wanted people who had

never been to church before, maybe didn't feel

comfortable. we were going to set up an atmosphere

that was going to be non -judgmental. And with

that, I gave that core group of members what

I called a flinch test. I said, look, I want

people to be able to come and hear the message

that we have, but they can't feel judged. They

need to be accepted. And so if somebody comes

in, and they're not dressed like you're supposed

to at a Baptist church like a concert t -shirt

or if they got tattoos or piercings or gay couples

or interracial couples or you smell alcohol in

their breath are you able to just say I'm glad

you're here and not have that little wince on

your face that lets them know and we were successful

and this was in now in the late 90s and the issue

that I didn't realize still being fairly young

was that when you reach out to people who didn't

grow up in a church, sometimes you're reaching

out to people who have a lot of personal issues.

So with that, I was incapable of unburdening

myself from their problems. So when someone came

to me and said, pastor, I think my wife's cheating

on me or my child is developing a drug addiction,

I worked with them. And then I found myself still

feeling bad and carrying that on from there.

Obviously, better pastors are able to deal with

this, but I wasn't. And resulting from that,

then for two years straight, every single day,

without fail, every day, I experienced stress

-related headaches. The only way I could deal

with them was to run. And so fortunately I was

getting in better shape because if I stayed out

running longer, then the headache would go away

longer, but it would eventually come back. And

I got to a point where I told my wife, I have

to find something. said, yeah, maybe don't be

stressed. I had to have something that a career

change where I didn't feel this same type of

stress. And it was very disappointing to me.

And for two years, I'd put this out off because

I was doing church the way I thought it should

be done. So finally getting to lead, we were

seeing positive results. It was working. People

were coming into the church. Lives are being

changed. And so for two years, I fought against

making a different decision because maybe this

will pass. Maybe I'll get through it. Maybe I'll

find some type of Tylenol that'll work. And it

came to a point then in mid 2001 where I said,

I'm going to apply for a new job. And the day

that I got accepted to that job, my headache

stopped. And I remember thinking part of that,

thinking to myself, I don't have to do this anymore.

I don't have to fight this. I don't have to play

this role. Even though I still hadn't gotten

into that new job yet in that period already,

I felt free and the headaches went away. And

so I spent 12 years in Christian ministry and

transitioned into 24 years. as an FBI special

agent. Very good. Thank you for that. I appreciate

that. For me, I used to be very religious. I

still am, but same same here there. Yeah, there

is a thing. I don't know if it's a thing everywhere,

but I know of it that that it's a very popular

thing where people will go to their pastor or

priest or whoever is in their religion over going

to a therapist. Like a talk therapist or a social

worker or a psychologist or something like that

So they kind of use that pastor or priest basically

as the same thing But they're gonna give they're

gonna give a different different take on it And

then a psychologist or a psychiatrist or a therapist

is. But what is that person looking for? If that

person has issues, are they looking for what

a psychologist says or are they looking for what

a pastor says? And to me, that's the big question.

And you want to know why? Because if they're

going to pick and choose about who they should

go to, then do they want to have a specific answer?

And this happens a lot. And when I do coaching,

because some people stay with me and some people

don't because some people don't like my answer.

They don't like my plan or my program that I'm

going to make for them. So they go to somebody

else. They might even go to a therapist or just

like advice from a friend or even a pastor or

something thinking that because because they

want to have a different answer. They don't want

to see what the truth is. They don't want to

know. Now, I'm just saying, I don't know if this

is the way that it was for you and you're the

people that came to you. But this I'm just saying

this is my experience. This is common. And the

other thing, too, is that to me, like a pastor

or whoever is not trained in this type of thing.

So that's the thing. So do they just want to

have somebody just to vent with? Because a lot

of times that could be just what it is, because

are you really going to give the feedback on

different things? Because This is you have this

type of training. And is the person familiar

with that? Does the person know that maybe they

should go to a therapist or something like that

or somebody that will help them a little better?

It's unfortunate that you had to go through that

to realize this. But it worked out good because

it worked out in the long run. But the question

for you is what was the process like? When you

started helping people, and then you realized

that you couldn't help people this way, and then

you couldn't stay in the parish anymore, you

couldn't run it like you thought that you could.

What was that process like? I think, addressing

some of what you said, I think I agree that a

lot of people are, they're choosing someone to

just go to that might give them the answer they

want. But also for a lot of people, they're either

afraid or can't afford, this was definitely a

poor area. that professional therapy also that

this is 30 years ago. So it wasn't as available,

but these are people saying, well, let me at

least first go to the pastor. And I think many

times they're just looking to do, they're looking

to vent. They're looking to just express themselves.

The pastor hopefully, and I definitely gave this

out of like, I'm not going to condemn, I'm not

going to judge. So they want to be able to share

like, This is what's hard in my life. This is

what I've done wrong in my life And then I can

just say you're still a good person and I will

be affirming I think a lot of people don't have

that experience with a therapist who of course

will also Even in a better way be affirming.

I didn't have I didn't have the training my training

was reading the Bible and speaking about it my

training was trying to win people over with a

gospel message, and it was not in any type of

therapy. And part of the difficulty for me then

is they're coming to me. I had no one else. I

was the only pastor. I had no one else that I

could turn to now that I could unburden myself

and say, hey, what advice do you have? This is

really hard for me. And so there I was on an

island just getting everything. plopped on my

shoulders and it was more and more and more.

Yeah. And that's that's very true. And that sounds

like what the outcome would be, what the process

would be. And that's why therapists have therapists

and, you know, doctors have doctors. And it's

not every profession has that. But the point

is that. The ones that are really looking to

help other people are really going to go and

spend their time or use their time going to therapy

or doctors or whatever. Now, I know this is probably

not the situation for you because this just turned

out not to be your path, you know, and that's

fine. I'm just giving some things, but. The thing

is, too, is that they just might say, oh, this

is confession because that's what we did in our

religion. I didn't go crazy with the priests.

But like I said, now that I'm a coach and I have

been for a while, but I've seen this happen where

they go through this whole big thing and the

priest is not going to say you got to hurry up

and. Just say a few things and that's it. You

know what I mean? The priest is not going to

say that. I know people that have went to priest

and have made private appointments one on one

session, just like a therapist. And the priest

does it. And that's how they act. You know what

I mean? They act exactly like a therapist. I

mean, it depends on the religion and the parish

and all these different things, I'm sure. But

I've seen all this type of stuff happen. And

if they want that, they just want to vent or

they want that, then that's fine. But it sounds

to me that's up to the individual. But it sounds

to me like your process was that that just wasn't

going to work for you. You went in a different

direction. And that's totally fine. Because I

have to be comfortable with myself and I have

to be comfortable with what I'm doing, you know,

and if I'm helping people, I know, which is a

lot of professions and careers. I know that this

has to be effective. And if it's not what's going

to happen, I'm going to wind up doing a disservice.

to the person, to the individual, rather than

doing a service to them. And I could think of

a hundred professions with a hundred different

examples, hundreds of examples, okay, where people

wind up doing this. Usually it's for greed, money,

and power, obviously. In your situation, it wasn't.

But you took the right action because you stopped

it. and you knew that you couldn't continue because

you weren't helping the people in the right way.

And that's what it sounds like to me. And also,

I don't want to have reservations. I don't want

to have ulterior motives for doing things that

I know that I'm going to help people if it benefits

me only. I had a religious professor who had

said, work in the coal mine so long that you

come out hunched over. And I was coming to a

place in ministry where I realized like I could

still try to help people and I could still be

part of a church that was successful and was

showing value in our community. But now moving

into two years, it was getting to a place where

I was going to ruin myself and There was a time

where I just recognized I have to find a job

with less stress. And the crazy thing, and I

tell people that as a joke, because I understand

how that sounds, that from a pastor to FBI agent,

for me, it was less stress. It was a different

stress. I didn't care if bad guys got away. I

mean, I cared, but it didn't haunt me. And the

stress that I experienced in the FBI was typically

Your body saying, okay, we got a task. Now let's

do it. Here's the adrenaline and completed the

task. And now it dumps out and we're onto the

next thing. And it was fine. There were not that

I wasn't sitting at home at night or throughout

the day, just perseverating on whether the bad

guy was going to do something bad later. That

was their nature. Bad guys are going to be bad.

So I could accept that. Yeah. So it's not. as

personal of a situation as being a pastor and

people telling you their problems. OK, so what

was the process like when you decided you wanted

wanted to be an FBI agent? And how did you go

through that? And also, did you have? any special

training or did somebody come up to you or did

you have therapy or did you see something on

TV or how did you get to that point where you

said you wanted to be an FBI agent? Because it

sounds a little bit different. And also what

was that process like during that transition?

Sure. So the FBI just sounded really cool and

I wouldn't be married to a beautiful woman if

I wouldn't have taken a shot. So I like FBI is

out of my league, but Might as well take a chance.

And surprisingly, along the way, they called

me back, called me back, and I went through each

phase. My application was in, in 2001, 9 -11.

And then since my background was in outreach

to Muslims, I assume that probably played a role

in why they said, okay, well, let's see about

this guy. I took the phase one test, which is

like an SAT. And I remember thinking, all right,

well, at least I try. There's no way I pass that.

They called me back and said onto phase two,

which is an interview and then a written test.

And I thought, okay, well, now I've got this

because I can perform well in that. But moving

through that process, now I was going from something

I was familiar with since I was a child, always

went to church, studied this undergrad, graduate

school. into something completely, fully unknown

to me. I'd never handled a gun and the FBI, I

spent 24 years in it. I think I probably understand

70 % of it because it's such a huge organization.

And so here I was in my introduction in Quantico,

Virginia, just getting a fire hose of not only

this is what it's like to work in law enforcement,

but this is what specifically the FBI is like.

Here's the tools we have. Here's our databases.

Here's how you conduct an investigation in different

fields. So, but despite that, it was pretty quick

into my involvement in this that I got a sense

that this is this in some ways, this now feels

better. There's no inauthenticity and, and I

feel bad saying that, but you came to me and

I'm your pastor. I've got a smile. I've got to

be have the right words. You can't see me at

the liquor store. I can't have bad days. And

that's just, that got to be a tiring way to live.

So all that bundled together, I felt now I'm

in the FBI. I just have to be the best me I can

and not worry if I am not or what I look like

to somebody else. And that very quickly. Just

felt more comfortable to me. Yeah. Yeah, that's

very good. Definitely. So you, you know, we discussed,

you know, you made the right decision and you

went through your process and it kind of sounds

like you had like a little sixth sense where

you just knew that this was being a pastor was

just wasn't in the direction. And you found that

out when you started and there's nothing wrong

with that because. This is how we find out a

lot of things about careers and trades and stuff

that we want to do, because a lot of times you

really don't know. People can tell you what it's

like, but you don't know really until you experience

it yourself. So somebody could say, that's not

a good career for you. And then you would just

say, OK, and not really know because you never

really tried it. And that's just the thing. That's

just the way that it is when a lot of stuff like

that with trial and error things. So that worked

out good and the end result was good. And now

you don't work anymore, which is a very good

thing. It's been good for a couple of months.

Yes. I know a couple of months is good. So how

do you feel today based on everything we said,

everything we talked about the whole podcast

and your process and everything? How do you feel

right now? Well, on reflection. I was still fairly

young. I was in my early thirties, 30 year old

when I was going through this and I had a fear.

Here I am. I could be a pastor for the next 50

years. You can be an old man and do this. And

here I was starting that path, really just getting

ahead of steam. Now I'm a senior pastor. I'm

leading my own church and it seemed like, okay,

I'm already there. Let's not give this up. This

is where I'm meant to be. And now looking back

at fifty six, I've been through a lot of things

and I've experienced difficulties. I've made

poor choices. I've been through trauma. I've

been through mistakes that I have initiated.

And because of that, I know how resilient humans

are that we over predict how bad. poor choices

will be. We overestimate. If I don't get this

right, it will ruin me. And you don't remember

that you're just going to re -center. And it

might be a different center, but we get through

things. We get through our mistakes. We even

get through terrible, terrible things that happen

to us. And so now I have that notion of, oh,

you should have just had the bravery to do it.

But now I've seen things enough times ago, oh,

I can just do this because My life will change

and then it will become that new normal that

will be like this. So looking back, I just see

how different it is to be 25 years older and

have had that experience. Yeah, that was good.

And that's a very good way to close. And in closing,

I would like to say that anybody could get through

anything. There's no such thing as a negative

situation. And that's what we want to try to

do here. We want to try to make it. as our life

process as easy as possible. And so the individual

could be a little bit more happier, you know,

happier than they are now. And that's the whole

point of this. And if you're suffering in any

way, shape or form, there is a way out. It's

just a matter of creating a willingness and reaching

out to whoever, you know, I'm a coach, but, you

know, I'm not trying to sell myself in this podcast,

but whoever you feel comfortable. with reaching

out to because. If you want to sit there and

you want to sit in your sick and suffering, that's

fine. But you don't have to. But that's just

up to the individual. That's the bottom line.

So as we close this conversation, as a reminder,

that progress really comes from one big decision,

but from the internal choices we repeat. If something

from today's discussion connected with you, take

a moment to notice how those internal choices

showed up in your own life. This has been the

Internal Shift Show. Thank you for listening.

And thank you, Eric, for being on the show. I

appreciate it. Thanks, Debbie.