Ken Kunken – Adversity to Strength

Welcome to the Internal Shift Show. I'm Debbie

Longo. This show looks at how the internal choices

we make influence the direction our lives work

and take. Today's conversation brings real experience

into that space, exploring how internal shifts

quietly change outcomes over time. We have a

very special guest today, Ken Klunken. Good afternoon,

Ken. Welcome to the show. Good afternoon, Debbie.

Thank you. You're welcome. Thanks for being here.

I'm just going to ask you to basically tell your

story. if there is a traumatic event or a life

change or anything that you want to talk about

and what happens and what was your process, how

you got through it and how you came out the other

side. And the end result of this story or situation

or example should be positive. Now I'm doing

this podcast for a few reasons. This is a new

podcast. One of the reasons is a big reason,

I think, is to educate people and to explain

to people and show people that there's a way

out, that anything that's negative, it doesn't

matter what it is, can always, always, always

turn into a positive. But that's going to depend

on the individual's mindset. Not only does the

individual have the issue, do they want to face

it? Do they want to say, oh, yeah. I have it,

and then do they want to have the willingness

to actually do something about it, do something

to change? If they want to sit in their sick

and suffering and be miserable, that's completely

up to them. That's up to the individual. Thank

you for being on the show. If you would like

to tell your story a little bit, I would appreciate

it. Well, I think the best way to start is to

direct your listeners back to 1970. Because at

that time, I was a fairly typical 20 year old

college student at Cornell University. I worked

hard in school and I loved sports. I was a member

of a fraternity and I had a lot of good friends.

And like most 20 year olds, I dreamed of leading

a useful, productive, rewarding and happy life.

But on October 31st, 1970, my life changed dramatically.

On that day, I broke my neck and severely damaged

my spinal cord. making a tackle on a kickoff

in a lightweight football game against Columbia

University. And in an instant, I went from being

in the very best shape of my life to being almost

totally paralyzed throughout my body and totally

dependent on those around me. So I spent the

next nine months and 20 days in various hospitals

and rehabilitation centers. I had a lot of encouragement

from my family that even though physically I

had virtually no movement. As you can see, I

still have almost no movement. I still had my

mental ability, my intellect, and they encouraged

me to go back to school and continue my education.

So I went back to Cornell and through the help

of my classmates and personal care attendants

and my family, I completed the next two years,

my undergraduate degree in industrial engineering

during those next two years. and I became the

first quadriplegic to ever graduate from Cornell.

But it was clear to me industrial engineering

was not the right field for me. I mean, this

was well before the age of laptop computers.

And based on the recommendation of a psychology

professor, I'd been taken and elected in psychology.

I changed my career goal and I decided to pursue

a career in counseling. And with his help, I

studied Counseling and Student Personnel Administration

at Cornell. And I became the first quadriplegic

to have earned a graduate degree from Cornell.

And then they increased my counseling credentials.

I went to Columbia University, where I earned

my second master's degree. This was in Psychological

Counseling and Rehabilitation. And I decided

to look for a job in the rehabilitation counseling

field. And think about this, Debbie, I now had

two degrees from Cornell, one from Columbia,

three prestigious Ivy League degrees. two master's

degrees, and no one would hire me. I mailed out

more than 200 resumes and looked for a job for

a year. Debbie, I was even turned down when I

have to volunteer my services. But I knew I could

work and make a significant contribution to some

organization. So I continued my job search, and

finally I found one organization willing to give

me the opportunity to show what I could do. And

that organization was Abilities Incorporated,

which was part of what was then called the Human

Resources Center. It's now called the Viscardi

Center, and they're located on Long Island in

New York State. They hired me to be a counselor

for other individuals that had disabilities.

Very good. That's a pretty amazing story. Talk

about from going to where you are to where you

are now. So... How did you feel when you were

going through all of this? When all of this was

happening and you had to change, you couldn't

walk, you couldn't move, and you were going back

to school, you made all these decisions while

being handicapped, basically. So what was your

feelings while you were going through all of

this? If you could explain. as much as you can.

I would appreciate that. Well, it was devastating

and about as depressing as anything could ever

be. And it was increasingly frustrating because

the medical personnel in the hospital seemed

reluctant to answer any of my questions. So I

was able to get a hold of a pamphlet that the

rehab center put out. And with somebody turning

the pages for me, it described based on my spinal

cord injury, what type of movement I would have.

And it was right on point. I have a little bit

in my bicep, but not in my tricep. It described

where my level of sensation would be, and it

was right on point. I only have feeling just

a couple inches below my shoulders and up. I

don't feel any part of my body below that. It

described how it would affect my bodily functions.

And again, right on point, how it would affect

my back, my bladder and my bowels and my lung

capacity. Right on point. And then they had a

page about what type of careers I could pursue.

And the only career that I saw for my level of

injury would be that someday I may be able to

sell magazine subscriptions over the telephone.

And I was devastated. And keep in mind, they

didn't even have touch -tone phones back then.

They were just rotary phones, and I couldn't

even dial a telephone or take notes or write

anything. So here I went from studying engineering

at one of the most prestigious colleges in the

country to the thought of maybe someday I could

sell magazine subscriptions over the telephone,

and then thinking even that may be too difficult

for me. It was overwhelming. I was fortunate

that the Viscardi Center, which is the head of

the abilities in court, hired me to be a rehabilitation

counselor and to counsel other people with disabilities.

And that changed my life. Yeah, it's interesting.

So when you were going through school and this

is something that you really wanted to do, was

it your calling? It seems like it was something

that you just were born into, that you were just

determined to do this in this way, the school

and the degrees and everything. And how did that

happen exactly? What was the pattern? What was

the process? It was really difficult when you

say, was it my calling? I was always very good

at math. Math was always my strong point. English,

not so much. And here I was having a tough time

with engineering before my injury because there

was a lot of science involved, physics, chemistry,

material science, not just math. And I was struggling.

And after my injury, it became almost impossible.

for me to be working as an engineer back then.

And for me, talking in front of a group was the

last thing I ever wanted to do. And here now,

I was being encouraged to change my career goal

from what I was naturally good at, which was

math, to a career where you're doing more speaking

and more dealing with groups of people. And that

was a very difficult change. And when I began

my job at the Human Resources Center, what's

now called the Viscardi Center, They sent me

out to speak to various groups and organizations

concerning disability issues non -discrimination

and jobsite modification and It was really difficult

because that did not come naturally to me But

I didn't know what else I was going to do with

my life back then But I had the opportunity to

work at that job. I loved it It changed my life

and it helped give me the confidence to say there's

even more I could do So after working there for

two years, I left that job and I went to Hofstra

University School of Law. And when I graduated

law school, I was fortunate to be hired by the

Nassau County District Attorney's Office to work

as an assistant district attorney, where I worked

for more than 40 years. Very good. So the result

was definitely positive. So that was kind of

leading me in to my next question, which will

be one of the last questions. What was the positive

change? You talked about the school and all the

careers and stuff that you got as the result

of all the schooling and the degrees and everything.

What positive changes have you made in your life

overall due to everything that's happened? And

we're talking about the outcome being positive.

What part of other parts of your life did this

affect in a positive way? What was the result

of that? Before my injury, I always considered

myself a bit of an introvert. And now I was forced

to be more of an extrovert. I had to talk to

people because I needed help doing everything

and I had to describe what help I needed and

ask for that help. And that totally changed the

way I related to people and acted. So it brought

me out of I don't know if I actually in a shell.

I mean, here I was an athlete. I was in a fraternity,

but I always felt. Like the best thing for me

would be to sit in the back of a large lecture

room, never raise my hand, hope nobody noticed

me, to now being speaking in front of groups.

I became for quite a while a motivational speaker,

where I was speaking in front of hundreds of

people and working at a job as the assistant

district attorney, where I was appearing in court

before juries that had packed courtrooms in the

back. And in fact, I later became a supervisor

where I was supervising other ADAs. But Debbie,

I have to say the best part of my life was how

it affected me personally. I went from being

a very shy person who rarely have ever dated

before my injury. I mean, I was 20 when I got

hurt to eventually going out and changing my

whole perspective on myself, dating a little

bit and meeting a woman that I fell in love with

who eventually became my wife. She's just sitting

off camera now. Her name is Anna. And when I

married Anna, it was in 2003, more than 30 years

after my injury. And I was in my 50s. And lo

and behold, Ana said not only did she want to

marry me, she wanted to have my baby, not just

our baby, my baby, which really seemed impossible

being paralyzed for more than 30 years. But we

looked into in vitro options and were thrilled

to learn it still may be possible for me to father

a child. So we pursued it. And on January 24th,

2005, I was present in the delivery room when

my wife, Anna, gave birth to triplets. We have

three gorgeous sons, Joey, Jimmy, and Timmy.

They're now 21 years old. They're juniors at

three separate colleges. And Debbie, I'm leading

a very happy life. I am thrilled to be the father

of triplet sons, to be married to my incredible

wife, Anna. And I would never have even met Anna.

had it not been for my injury. I originally met

her because she helped as one of my personal

care aides. That's how I met her. And our relationship

developed between employer -employee to becoming

best friends, to a romantic relationship, to

husband and wife. And that is truly, truly amazing.

And definitely a godsend, so it sounds like it

was really... really meant to be and really worth

it in the long run. So the last question is how

do you feel today, right now, based on this whole

conversation that we've had? I feel great. I've

been so incredibly blessed to have the family

that I have. And I mentioned my incredible wife,

my wonderful triplet sons, but I've got a brother,

a sister, cousins, aunts, uncles. Everybody in

my family has been so incredibly helpful. and

support of my entire life, but particularly after

my injury, that it's brought us all even closer

and it's made family such an integral part of

my life and brought me a lot of pleasure. I have

to say I learned there's an awful lot somebody

can do if they're given the opportunity and have

the drive and motivation to make the most of

it and have the right support and encouragement

to make their goals come true. Yeah, thank you.

That was very good for an ending. One thing that

I would like to put in there, insert, is that

not only that people are physically able to do

things, right, like a construction worker, but

to me, if you're mentally able and you're mentally

willing, that really is what comes first because

the mind controls the body. their mind controls

everything we do, the way we think, the decisions

we make and everything. So that's why, to me,

that's the most important thing. So whatever

the person's physical ability is or disability,

and there's a million examples of this and stories

and everything that in this story to me, right,

in this podcast that we're having now. That does

not matter because it sounds to me like you put

your mind above everything any possible physical

challenge or any type of challenge at all that

you had and you put your mind above it and I

think that this story is a very good example

of that because That can happen to anybody and

I think that a lot of people because I know I

work with a lot of people like this that it doesn't

matter how they are physically, is that their

mind is not there, they're not present in themselves,

in what they do in their daily life. Like, they're

doing something and then their mind is in a different

spot. It's in a different place. And they're

not in tune with their mind and their thinking

and their behavior. So it's like one part of

your mind controls another part and the two are

not connected. Different things like that. It

doesn't matter, like I said, what your physical

ability or disability or anything is. It's the

point that the mind can do anything and overcome

anything. But the first thing that I always want

to do is recognize that I even have a problem

because I don't even know if something's going

on. I might say it's not and it really is. And

then I want to be willing to do, to change, to

do something about it. And that is what's gonna

start to get the ball rolling. And then I could

seek help. You went to, did you have any professional

guidance, like maybe a psychologist, or you went

to school, but did you have any professional

guidance to guide you through this path, maybe

to suggest that you wanted to go to school, that

you should go to school like a family member

or something like that? That was one question

I wanted to ask. Debbie, when I was in the rehab

facility, there was a vocational counselor named

Joyce Mesh who encouraged me to go back to college,

which seemed like a really difficult thing to

do because I would need to hire a personal care

attendant and find a school that I could go to.

Cornell was not very wheelchair accessible, but

I decided to go back there in any event and to

be able to function away from home because I

decided it would be best for me to return to

Cornell. pick up my life where it had been. So

she was vocational counselor while I was in the

rehab facility. Then I had this psychology professor

who encouraged me to change my career goals and

pursue a career in psychology and counseling,

which I enjoyed very much. But I also had a brother

who was very supportive, who was a lawyer, and

I used to watch him in court. And I thought that

looks really interesting and something I could

do. At least I hoped I could do it. So I decided

to change my career goal again after working

as a rehab counselor, leave the job and go to

law school. I had a lot of help along the way.

People encouraging me to do different paths and

encouraged me to stay motivated, which was not

easy following my injury. I'd been very motivated

before my injury, but trying to stay motivated

was difficult. But I had a lot of people in my

corner helping me every step of the way. But

one of the things that was difficult was that

people's expectations were so low for what somebody

with a disability could do back then. And that

took quite a while to get past people's expectations,

to show them that there was still a lot I could

do despite their limited expectations and to

just ask and be given the opportunity to show

what I could do. And that made all the difference.

Yeah, you had people motivating you and influencing

you. But you took the bait. You said, this person's

suggesting this. This is what I'm gonna try.

I'm gonna try it. I have nothing to lose. So

that's what I'm saying. That's the most important

thing. Tons of people can say things to anybody.

And then a lot of times I recognize, other people

recognize things in myself that I don't recognize

in myself. If I don't be able to have an open

mind, to understand what somebody is saying,

that maybe I want to change or something or fix

a problem that I have or just to acknowledge

it, then anybody could say anything a million

times and nothing is going to happen. So this

is really a great example. This podcast is really

a great example of Literally, you put your mind

to anything you can do anything. It does not

matter what it is. It has nothing to do with

what it is. The thing is the thing. That's the

outside force. That's the physical thing. I'm

not talking about that. I'm talking about what

is going on in somebody's mind. What is their

process? How did they get through it? And that's

what I want to focus on. How do I make my mind

strong enough and open enough and willing enough

where I can take suggestions or have somebody

motivate me or try to get out of the rut or the

problem or the issue or whatever it is that I'm

in and I could come back on the other side and

my life will be great like you were explaining.

You got married, you have children, triplets.

that you you never dreamed it. It just came true.

It was amazing. I just have to emphasize I could

not have done any of it alone. I was fortunate

to have the support of my family and friends.

And that made all the difference. Yep. And that's

another very, very, very good point, because,

like I said, I need to have those people around

me. But the thing is that if I know something's

going on, there's always somebody there. Nobody

is leaving us alone. We always have people around

us. But whether I want to see that I can solve

my problem or do better, then that's completely

up to me. So to me, the people are always there

guiding us and helping us. But it's just a process.

What I go through was just a process. So this

was an amazing, amazing podcast. And I really,

really appreciate you being on the show. and

sharing your story. It was awesome. Definitely

was awesome. Yeah, thank you. As we wrap up,

this conversation highlights how small internal

shifts can create meaningful change. If something

from today stayed with you, take a moment to

reflect on how it connects to your own direction

and decision. This has been the Internal Shift

Show. Thank you for listening. Thank you, Ken,

for being on the show. I appreciate it. Thank

you.