Kevin Cover: Comfort, Collapse, and the Discipline to Rebuild

Welcome to the Internal Shift Show. I'm Debbie

Longo, Transformational Coach. This show explores

how the way we think, decide, and respond internally

influences where we end up over time. Today's

conversation draws on real experience and expertise

to look at how small internal shifts can change

direction, momentum, and outcomes. I'm joined

today by a very special guest, Kevin Kover. Good

afternoon, Kevin. Welcome to the show. Hi, Debbie.

Thanks for having me on. Thank you for being

on. I'm gonna ask you today to tell your story

and point out a life change situation or scenario

or traumatic experience or something where. You

went through a process, and if you can really

explain the process as much as you can, and what

the end result is. And the end result should

always be positive. And I do this show for a

few different reasons, and one main reason is

because everybody has their own individual story,

but there are parts to people's stories that

other people can relate to. And that's really

what we're trying to accomplish here. So maybe...

somebody is stuck in a situation or a scenario

where they want to get out of it, but they don't

know how. And sometimes they're stuck where they

just think that it's normal. They think that

they can, they just don't know how to get out

of it, you know? But the point is that there's

no such thing as a negative situation. Anything

can go. from negative to positive. And that's

really what we're trying to teach here. We're

trying to accomplish. So if you could do that

for me, I would appreciate it. Thank you. Absolutely.

So I think just for context, I am not an academic

and I'm not a guru. I dropped out of school and

started working at 21 in the car business. So

this story picks up five years later. I got promoted

to general manager at Greenwich Acura in Greenwich,

Connecticut, real wealthy area, high end. And

I came in at 27 to a group of people that were

essentially mostly twice my age and tried to

build something there. So in the beginning, they

were polite, but they were watching. They were

watching every decision I made. I changed some

things right away. The way the phones were answered.

If you've ever dealt in the car business, it's

not necessarily the best experience for most

people stereotypically. So Just simple things

like, yeah, picking up the phone within three

rings or else I'm going to pick it up. So once

a test drive, you don't make them make an appointment,

let them test drive a car. They ask for a price

on the phone. Give them a price, like just simple

things. And it sounds, sounds silly, but that

really launched and we essentially doubled sales

in a short period of time. I developed some systems

with working with, uh, legal pads to make sure

that the deals didn't buy it, die from boredom.

If you're just people waiting around for too

long for steps to get happen to happen, cars

were prepped the right way, working with the

service department. All that's to say that I

put a lot of things in place and things got really

good. And that's really where we start is, uh,

what I've learned and I keep learning is that

when you want to expand and you want to grow,

you need to check your ego and you need to stay

on process. And that's really, that's really

my, my failure or my collapse. In this story,

when things got really good, you think you're

leveling up and you're, you're, you're just stopping.

So I, I started doing, skipping some of my front,

my Saturday prep. That's a busy, busy day in

the car industry where I would set up today,

see how many delivers we had work with the service

department, make sure things were clean, little

things like that. I had a legal pad with three

columns and a prospect, prospect, name, salesperson,

the Saturday status. And I used it every Saturday.

And I wanted, that's just one example of things

I stopped. So I got comfortable. I got comfortable

that things were running well. And as, as I've,

I've learned comfort is that's where discipline

dies. You just start thinking that you're above

it. You start thinking you're doing something

better or the team's running and you've built

something great and all of this. And it's, it's

just not the case. You know, so that's where

it really collapse comes in for me. Collapse

it whispers before it screams. There's, there's

little holes that you start to notice and you

tell yourself it's just a bad week. There was

some bad news and people aren't buying right

now or the weather's too cold or too hot. It's

too close to a holiday. It seems to me after

a holiday. All that, all the outside influences

that I think a lot of us and I do tend to point

to when things aren't going well, instead of

just looking in at your controllables. And for

me, it was just not doing what got me there.

This is one story and I will unapologetically

say that I've done this more than once where

I start to think that I'm going to get too big

for what's in front of me and I trip and I fall

and I try and learn to your point. So I doubled

business in two years. I got the team to respect

me, which at 27 to 50 year old plus is not an

easy task. And then I reverted back to. thinking

I was above a lot of my daily activities and

little, just one, one down week, a slight bounce

back week, just those little, those little hiccups.

And then seemingly out of nowhere, because I

wasn't identifying the holes in the, in the gaps

in my process, we dropped essentially back to

where I started. We, we, we lost that increase.

And I remember, uh, one, I think it was on a

Thursday, the owner came in and then I was the

general manager and he, he, he closed the door,

which It's never good. What, what's going on?

When he closes the door on you and he said, the

old guy, what's, what's going on? We've been

solid for months now. And all of a sudden everything

feels chaotic again. I sat there and I just didn't

have a good answer because nothing external had

changed really, despite what I had told myself.

It was the same market. It was my same team.

I had the same inventory, nothing had changed,

but it's just what I hadn't said out loud to

myself yet. that I reverted back to reactive

leadership though. That's the beginning. To me,

there's always a difference between failure and

collapse. So this collapse story, not a failure

story. And my biggest opportunities are when

I'm doing well. A lot of us can find our way

to a level or in a measure of success, right?

But what happens then? Like, are you growing?

Are you just... maintaining, or are you bringing

your ego or your desire to outgrow something

and eliminating what got you there? And that's

collapse for me. That's what this story is about.

So that was very good. And I really appreciate

you talking about your story and giving us some

details. There's a lot of things with being comfortable

and you explain your story. But this is what

I keep hearing is that you just were comfortable

and then that snowballed into a lot of things

started happening for you. And then everything

turned out to be negative. So what happens is

and then you went through your process, right,

which we're going to be talking about. So your

process, I mean, so the process is that there's

a The little thing that I want to say that I

do a lot and I've helped a lot of people with

this because believe it or not, you're not the

only one on earth that goes through a job or

something and gets comfortable. Tons of people

do this because it's really nice to feel comfortable.

It's really nice. The point to that is if I get

out of my comfort zone, I'm learning and growing

and evolving. And if I stay comfortable and I

stay in my comfort zone, I'm not. And that's

why there's always problems. Now I wanna explain

something. I'm not a psychologist, I'm not a

doctor, but I do know this for a fact and anybody

could look it up. It's research, it's information.

What happens is that we have different paths

in our brain, pathways, and we develop more when

we... stay out of our comfort zone, basically.

And when we're in our comfort zone, we're not

developing them. And the idea is to get as many

pathways as we possibly can. And to tell you

the truth, I don't know if this would be a situation

in your case, but my experience is that people

become more intelligent when that happens. So

people who are like geniuses and... are really

successful in business and will go to the extreme

to do things for their business and for themselves,

which a lot of people who are very successful

do that. They are the ones that are constantly

doing things. They strive, literally strive.

all the time to get out of their comfort zone.

And that's how they turn out that way. And your

story, like I said, is a very, very good example

of something that's extremely common. A lot of

people do it. I've done it a lot of ways, and

I don't do it that way anymore only because I

could see the difference. And now you could see.

So what happened? So the question is that what

was the process from when you were successful

and then you got into your comfort zone and you

started to realize that everything was going

downhill and you were going to keep going downhill

if you didn't do something to change it. What

was that process like? The process that led me

to success was being a more of a servant leader

and coming in. humbly and letting successful

salespeople give me their thoughts and not just

leaping to, this is what Kevin thinks. The changes

I made initially were subtle. Like I said, the

three ring rule, like common sense stuff. And

I didn't make a big announcements by it. I just

picked up the phone one day and said, well, there's

no commission for anybody here because you didn't

do the work. And I picked it up so that this

one's going to stay with the house. And guess

what? The three ring rule was not a big problem

after that. for a while and, and you know, that

the daily activities of when a customer is coming

to get the card, have I communicated with service

department and made sure that they're, they're

not overwhelmed that day and scheduled cohesively

within the building to make sure that my service

team was working well and the sales team were

and not corrupting each other. Just really walking

around with that legal pad every day with a,

I had it listed as four quadrants, you know,

what has to happen today as in what needs to

happen. What, where can I afford to take my time?

Where, like, am I, am I talking to the right

decision makers, whether it's the owner or the

head of the service department or my sales manager,

or am I just unilaterally making my own decisions?

And I had a pad where I would just start my day

and write those down. And that would just track

my day of where I went. Plus my initial cadence

of five day week meetings. And you know, Debbie,

I'm not talking about hour long rah rah sessions.

win -win one for the gipper. For me, again and

again, I've learned that rhythm will compound,

but that motivation dies. So if you don't communicate

with clarity often, then you're leaving people

wandering around a little bit. And so that just

those things Saturdays, like I said, just following

the salespeople around and tracking when did

their customer get there? Where are they in the

process? Are we moving people at the appropriate

place to respect their time and get things done?

A whole, a whole system that I won't bore you

with that worked really well and has worked really

well. And it's again, it's when, when it was

going well, that, that I, I slow down and I just,

well, the service knows they have the list or

the salespeople know I need them to get here

within 30 minutes. Then I don't need to have

this Tuesday meeting anymore. And, but you do,

I do at least in order to be successful. I need

to communicate, especially when I was a younger

leader, which is. Like you said, everyone's got

their own journey. It's a curse dropping out

of school and starting at a young age and leading

at a young age, but it's also an amazing opportunity

because you learn to communicate differently,

not through young and screaming and ego. I didn't

have that luxury because nobody would have listened

to me. Yeah. So what's, what was the process

now between then and you realized that you needed

to do something right. And then. You changed

up until now, you know, and what was that process?

How do you feel? What was the feeling when you

changed? And what was that? What did you have?

Any specific help? Did you have professional

help? Did somebody tell you something? Did you

see a commercial on TV? Did you have any push

or anything from somebody or something? The push

was a direct push from the owner. Cause it was

his P and L and it was dying on the vine under

my leadership. Again, I, there's good people

everywhere in every business. I don't, I can't,

I don't look back on mentors and people that

have taught me because really most of what I

learned is how I didn't want to be. How do I

succeed and still put my head on the pillow and,

and, and live life the way I want to. And not

to be righteous, but, but just to be, be my organic,

true self. And I'm not by nature, a manipulative

person. So. When the owner closed the door that

day, I stayed late that night and I just, I just

spent hours and hours thinking about what, what,

what did I do? And it disciplines what you need

till you're not good enough until you are good

enough. It never has to go away. And the structure

is really the scaffolding that, you know, you

can only remove it when the building can stand

on its own. I haven't found a building that can

stand on its own. If you don't maintain it, you

know, and. I knew how to internalize a system.

I just stopped doing it. So I, I, it was, I had,

I really, I remember just sitting in that office,

just with my head down, just thinking through

all the things that I stopped doing that took

away the structure of, of the process that led

us to success. So the systems weren't mine. I

developed them, but they were for my entire team.

And when I stopped doing them, I took away their

opportunity and I took away their leadership.

So like I said before, the collapse didn't start

when, when things fall apart, they start when

they finally are working and that the disregarding

that and thinking you're leveling it up is not

the way it goes. And it's that overconfidence,

just not, not necessarily arrogance, but more

just relief. Like, Oh, I did it. I climbed the

steps. But then Debbie realizing that I, I think

a little differently than I, uh, A lot of people,

no big surprise when I see leaders and training

trainers, they, they treat it like a ladder.

And that's what I had done. Like I climbed the

ladder. I got to the top, like Rocky. And I say,

I did it. And what I've learned is that it's,

it's not a ladder. It's a wave. It's a, it's

a recurring wave that you need. You have your

five or six swing thoughts, whatever they might

be. And they need to be consistent because it's

not just for you. If you're going to lead, it's

got to be for the whole team. And the other thing

is it's a process. Everything is a process. So

when I stop and this is all connected to what

we're talking about, then I stopped the process

and then or multiple processes or processes,

however you want to say it. And then I stopped

the growth. I stopped the paths from developing

the pathways in my brain. And that's how I stopped

the growth. And then what happens? I don't really

stand still because science tells us that when

we're really not standing still, we're always

moving. So what's going to happen then? I'm probably

going to go backwards. So that's the thing. So

how do you feel from your process right until

now? What is that just about your feeling and

based on everything that's happened? This, so

we're going back. This is 1997. So if I haven't

learned a little bit in the last 29 years, so

what I, what I've gotten out of it, I've learned

is that you, you're never done. And in between

that, what I didn't touch a lot on is what I

call like a hero versus rhythm leadership. As

I started and it was one building, I, I, I could

be everywhere and I could be touch everything,

which is really just, it's. is creating this

dependency that's disguised as respect because

you're, you're, you, you end up being the answer.

And that's part of how I got to that point is

I, yes, I build processes, but I also built reliance

on me. And as I've grown over the years from

there and managed teams that are bigger than

that and more than one building, I know a lot

of growing pains we can do that. We could have,

we could be honest for a lot of hours with all

of my, my failures and mistakes that I've made.

But as you said, the learnings are what you need

to get out of it. And now when I, now when I

lead, I really lean on people a lot more and

I give them space to create. And you realize

really more and more how differently we all think.

And also how so many people have so much brilliance

to offer that when you want to be the hero, you

just don't. You don't unleash that and you limit

your growth and you limit their growth and you

become the bottleneck. So really what I got out

of that story and as a, as a moment in time is

you can never stop with your process. And then

if you really truly want to grow, you need to

have people grow with you with clarity and giving

them space to make their own mistakes and learn

and their own decisions instead of becoming the

bottleneck. Yeah, so that's very true. And then

also another thing I was thinking of about when

you are going through your process, right, and

you're changing and everything, right, then my

life is going to ultimately get better because

not only am I out of my comfort zone and everything

that we talked about, but constantly I'm gonna

go back into a comfort zone and then I have to

get out of it. So I'm constantly, this is part

of the process. I'm constantly getting out of

it. And what happens then? I learn lessons from

this. And these are all different ways in which

I grow. And I take these lessons and these old

behaviors that I've developed, whatever, and

I apply them to my new way of thinking. To the

new pathways that I've developed and this is

how another way that I grow But this is how I

become successful because I don't want to repeat

the same thing over and over Especially if it's

a lesson that I have to learn or I'm not doing

well, or I have a bottom, or my business is not

doing well, whatever, okay? These are things

I don't want to repeat. So as long as I'm going

towards the positive and I'm not going backwards,

right, towards the negative again, which is an

example of this is not learning my lesson and

repeating blah, blah, blah, like we've been talking

about, as long as I'm not doing that, then I'm

always learning lessons and I'm always moving

towards the positive. And I'm always going to

move forward. So it's one thing or the other.

It sounds like really common sense, but to actually

do it. And this is something where I'm going

to practice this every day. It's not that easy.

And I have to change. I have to change my thinking.

I have to change my behavior. So there's a lot

of things here that we're talking about. It's

saying your situation, telling the story, all

these different things. Under all of this, there's

a lot of things that is happening pretty much

all at the same time. You know, so this is very,

very good. So, God, do you want to say something?

Yeah, you just just as you were speaking, you're

just making me think of just general swing thoughts

and what one of my primaries. Well, there's two.

And it speaks to being outside of your comfort

zone is you need to be fearless, but not reckless.

Cause sometimes people jump outside their comfort

zone and they jump in the deep end and they can't

swim. Well, that's not getting outside of your

comfort zone. That's suicide. So be fearless

and, and don't be afraid and don't, don't get

stuck in the imposter syndrome where you think

that you're not good enough, but don't be reckless

and arrogant. And that's part of the collapse

story is, is that it's, it's that push towards

recklessness, which is really cohabitates with.

with ego and, and just sort of starting to think

you're bigger than a process. So that's one.

And the other is just organically. If you want

to lead, you need to be selfless, not selfish.

You need, you can't just walk in. I talk a lot

about reciprocity and just building it, but reciprocity

to a lot of people means that I hand you a plastic

pen and then I ask you to work hard. That's artificial,

genuine interest, like our conversation and that

I appreciate, you know, genuine interest in people

and what makes them tick and how to let them

succeed. But that's always going to be the result,

because if I don't do anything to change at all,

even for a period of time, the result is I will

always eventually go backwards. I might not tomorrow.

I might not in two years, but if I don't change

and I don't move forward and I don't learn the

lessons and I don't create those new pathways,

I will always eventually go backwards. And that's

psychology and science. And this is all stuff.

This is not stuff that we make up. I just don't

say this. This is from experiences of me, of

me being a coach and teaching people and all

that. This is all stuff that we all already know.

But this is the reason why I do this show is

because I want to let people know that this is

really true. And this is something that could

really happen to them if it didn't already. It

might have. And what do they do about it? So

this is the thing. So how do you feel? This is

the last question. How do you feel today? Right

now, based on everything we've talked about this

whole podcast and everything you said, how do

you feel? I feel like it's been a great conversation

and your insights are are helpful and they they

really compliment how I feel, how I feel in general

about life is I feel like I'm in control of my

life now because I've finally taken the time

to commit to that discipline. And it requires

me old school, writing down my to -do list every

day and being consistent in how I approach everything.

And this can be business or my family or my friendships.

And it's, I don't want to wear two hats. I want

to just be who I am and be consistent in the

way I do it. So I, you're never done growing.

You're never done improving. And I will. always

continue, but I do have a firm grasp on who I

want to be and how I want to approach my day.

And the work is staying committed to it no matter

what, no matter how well or poorly things are

going, staying committed to your process and

believing it. And as you said, exploring new

processes and growing. And I'm going to get used

to not comfortable, but I'm going to get used

to a different way of living. And then that's

going to be different. What's going to be a new

a way that I become I just grow to be familiar

with. But then what do I want to do after that?

Now I want to do something different. And that

gets me out of my comfort zone. Different things

like that. And that sounds a little bit strange

because it's easy like we were talking about.

It's just easy to stay in your comfort zone.

But the ultimate result is really what I'm trying

to say here. The ultimate result is that once

I get comfortable. And I'm used to the process

of changing. And then it's going to be normal

for me to go into another area to get out of

my comfort zone or go just go do something else.

It doesn't have to be anything drastic. Just

do something that I normally don't do. And I'm

used to that. Now I'm going to be used to that.

So now I'm going to go over and over different

things like that. Yeah, so this was good. This

was a very good way to end. And as we close,

this conversation is a reminder that progress

really comes from one big decision, but from

the internal choices we repeat. If something

from today's discussion connected with you, take

a moment to notice how these internal choices

showed up in your own life. This has been the

Internal Shift Show. Thank you for listening

and thank you, Kevin, for being on the show.

I appreciate it. Thanks so much, Debbie.