Mickey Fitch-Collins: Burnout, Identity Shift, and Choosing a New Path

Welcome to the Internal Shift Show. I'm Debbie

Longo, transformational coach. This show explores

how the way we think, decide, and respond internally

influences where we end up over time. Today's

conversation draws on real experience and expertise

to look at how small internal shifts can change

direction, momentum, and outcomes. We have a

very special guest today, Mickey Finch -Collins.

Hi, Mickey. Welcome to the show. Good afternoon.

Thank you. Yeah, thanks for having me, Debbie.

I appreciate it. Thank you for being here. I

am going to ask you to tell your story and basically

point out a situation or some type of life change

or decision or something like that that happened

during the course of your life where you went

from basically a negative to a positive. So I

was someplace. this is my process that I went

through, pretty specific if you can, and then

this is where I am now, and the end result should

always be a positive. Now, I do this show for

a few different reasons, and one reason is because

everybody has their own individual story. but

the people can point out or can identify with

things in other people's stories that they're

going through in their life. And that thing that

they can identify with situation or whatever

it is, that is going to attract the listener

and hopefully they will be able to listen to

your process. Just so maybe they can see that

there's a light at the end of the tunnel or a

way out for them. And if just we accomplish just

that, that's a lot because nobody has to sit

in the negative. Nobody has to sit in the sick

and suffering. Nobody has to sit where they are

today. They can always change. There's always

a way out. There's always another direction.

But does the person know that? Do they need to

recognize that there's a lot of different scenarios?

And this is one of the things I'm not trying

to sell myself, but when I coach and stuff, this

is like a very first step kind of thing. It's

like a little step kind of thing. So that's main

main reason why I have the show. So if you could

do that for me, I'd appreciate it. Thank you.

Yeah, for sure. So so my story really starts

about six or seven years ago. Within a few years.

So I had my first career was working in higher

education administration. So I worked in colleges

and universities all the way from my time in

my graduate school program when professionally

the next 20 years I'm working at a variety of

different colleges and universities always on

the student service kind of student support side

of the house. And I had risen. all the way up

to the C -suite level, chancellor, staff level,

as high as one can go, basically short of being

a chancellor of a university. Within a few years

period of time, I had gotten married. I had finished

my PhD. I had turned 40. My wife and I had our

first child. And the pandemic happened. OK, so

this all happened within about a two year period

of time. And in that whole process, what I realized

and what I was experiencing, my research that

I did for my dissertation was on middle manager

burnout. And I had just exited a middle manager

position to go into a senior executive role.

But I was experiencing exactly what I was researching.

Massive amounts of burnout, significant health

issues, mental health issues, frustration, anger.

sadness, waking up in the middle of the night,

not being able to go to sleep, not being able

to stay asleep, not feeling like I was actually

getting anything done at work, all this sort

of stuff. And I was applying band -aids to what

I realized was a very internal deep wound. And

what I realized that wound was was I don't want

to be doing this work anymore. I don't feel a

calling to this work anymore. And that was really

hard because I had two advanced degrees in higher

education administration. I had spent my entire

career doing that work. And so I found myself

in this position. I actually... that the culminating

point for me was nine days after the birth of

my daughter, one of my peers said to me, you

need to make a choice between the university

and your family because this isn't a job, this

is a lifestyle. And I was like, choice made.

But I, in that moment... Didn't know what to

do. I didn't know what agency I had I had no

idea like what else do I do? Because this is

all I've ever done and I've done it and I've

done it Well, and I've gotten lots of promotions

and lots of different jobs and all of this sort

of stuff So I went through Debbie what I would

call a discernment process a process where I

really stopped and Kind of values exercise sort

of thing. What is it that I like? What is it

that I value? What are the moments and the places

and spaces and people and situations that I feel

like I am my most authentic and true self? And

what I did when I went through that process was

I went all the way back to my teenage years and

the things that I was doing in my teenage years

and realized it was always about teaching and

learning and training and development. It was

always the opportunities where I could help other

people learn and grow, where I could supervise

other people, where I could help people get better

in their hobbies, get better in their work, get

better, become better versions of themselves.

So I realized through all of this, that's the

stuff that's always been energizing to me. And

I started to kind of look, okay, like, what does

that look like for work? And I realized there

is a whole entire field of learning and development.

Sometimes it's housed in the human resource function

of organizations, sometimes it's talent development,

organizational development, whatever it is. And

what I realized is... Oh my gosh, this stuff

that I love that has only been five, 10, maybe

15 or 20 % of my job, this could be the entirety

of what I do. And so I did what a lot of people

do, which is I made a soft exit from the world

of higher education. I went to EdTech. I worked

at a fantastic EdTech company, but I realized

I was just not the right person. But it felt

like a nice soft landing and a soft exit for

me. I left that role. and came to the world of

learning and development. I work for an organization

called Learn It, and essentially what I tell

people, my job is to help other people get better

at their jobs. And so I spend most of my days,

whether it's in group formats, coaching folks,

or individual formats. I do lead virtual web

workshops for folks. I do in -person pieces.

I help other people get better at their jobs,

but it was this huge, massively difficult, really,

I mean, down to the core of who I was, process

of transformation. And it's still a process of,

I mean, I'm still in this identity formation

sort of process. So that's the reader's digest

version, I could say, of this transformation

process for me. Very good. That was good. Thank

you. So as you were going through this process...

And especially when they told you that the job

is a lifestyle and, you know, choose whatever,

however they described it, choose your family

between your job. I'm just giving an example

of probably one of the parts of the process that

you went through. So when you were going through

that and any other part that you could identify

with, what is your, how were you feeling during

that process? How was the transition like? What

were your feelings while you were going through

this? Yeah. I mean, I felt lost. I mean, I was

at the beginning stages of it. The colleague

of mine saying you need to make a choice between

your family and the university. That was really

startling. And it was especially startling because

it was coming from another woman who's also a

mother. And I was like, wait a minute, like...

is this actually modern times that I'm having

another woman who's telling me basically, like,

don't be an active mom. Like, give your life

to the university. But I also, because I was

in such these deep stages of burnout, I was also

just frustrated with my work. I felt like, I

mean, one of the other big reasons why I knew

that I needed to make a change was I was spending

more time behind closed doors fighting for resources

with my colleagues than I was doing anything

to actually help students graduate and be successful.

The feelings that I was having was frustration

and burnout. I felt physically ill a lot of the

times. I was ill a lot of the times. I was having

to miss work because I was just acquiring colds

all the time and all this. What was hard about

it was I didn't, you used the phrase before,

the light at the end of the tunnel. I didn't

see a light at the end of the tunnel because

I had very aggressively pursued this career.

I mean, I was one of those people, oh, you're

the youngest person that we've ever had in this

position before. And oh my gosh, like, this is

incredible that you were promoted into this role.

all of this sort of stuff. And so there was never

a part of me that thought, oh, I'm not going

to be doing this type of work. And so to say

to myself, okay, I need to make this change,

I felt like I was in a dark room with a blindfold

on and somebody was saying, figure it out. And

I'm like, I don't know what kind of room I'm

in. Is there a door? Are there any windows? Like,

is there anybody else in here? So I felt really

lost and... You know what I'm grateful and thankful

for is I had a couple of I'm a pretty big extroverted

person I I know a ton of people and have a ton

of acquaintances and I keep very few close friends

but I had a couple of few close friends one in

particular that was a mentor to me that really

pushed me over the finish line to finish my my

doctorate program because Anybody who's been

through a phd like the last six months is horrendous

and awful And you feel like it's never going

to be over with she was the one that said there

are other possibilities and let's take a look

at this and like ask me some of those questions

and also normalized the feeling of I don't know

what's next because I think I was feeling a lot

of times of like I'm the only person that's ever

felt this way I'm the only one who's going through

this and she started normalizing like I know

this person this person this person let me tell

you those stories which is exactly what we're

doing here today you know but she normalized

some of that stuff and She also helped me recognize,

okay, let's take a look at these skills and experiences

that you've had, and let's look at how those

are transferable to other industries and other

type of work. You don't only exist in this one

industry. Like you are a person. I mean, I think

about the Walt Whitman quote of, I'm a person

of multitudes. I butchered the quote, but being

a person of multitudes and multiple opportunities.

In those early stages and places, it was really

hard because I had to figure out, I mean, very

practically speaking, if I'm going to get another

job, I have to apply for other jobs. I have to

go through interview processes, but I also have

to be able to translate this whole entire 20

-year career into a language and a lexicon that's

going to make sense for people who don't work

in higher ed, which every industry has its own

language. Higher Ed has a very, very, very different

way of talking about being a business because

nobody in Higher Ed wants to say that we're a

business. And so I had to go through that process

and then figure out how do I talk about myself

and all of this experience that I've had really

kind of rising through a hierarchy. How do I

talk about that? but I'm also coming in as somebody

who's absolutely brand new in this second career

field. So I'm like a greenhorn in the room again.

Like, and how do I do that and humble myself?

So there were all these mixed feelings that were

going on of like, this is exciting and there's

these possibilities, but also like very practically

speaking, like I have a mortgage to pay and I

have a kid that I need to take care of, my family,

like all of this sort of stuff. So like. I need

to figure this out and I need to do so pretty

quickly because I am rapidly kind of devolving

and dissolving in this pit of pain that I was

in. Yes, that was very good. So one of the things

that I like to talk about if I am teaching somebody

or coaching or just even talking to somebody

just casually or whatever, is that everything

I do, picking up my cup, Everything I do is a

process. Now I don't, before I pick up my cup,

I don't say, oh, I'm going through this process

of picking up my cup. That's not, I just do it.

But sometimes things that happen in our lives,

this is an event that happened in my life, I'm

picking up a cup. Sometimes events that happen

in our lives turn into, become certain situations.

or turn into certain situations. And sometimes

those events are longer and they're more complicated

and they're more detailed. Therefore, or hence,

leading to a very longer, complicated, more detailed

process. Now the end, I like to say, oh, tell

your story beginning to end. Well, that's what

we're doing here because we don't have forever.

And we're not at the end. Exactly. That's what

I'm, the point I'm trying, but it's just what

I was going to say. Sometimes when we're going

through something, sometimes there is an end

where it stops and then something else happens

and then you start another process. Or sometimes

there might not be necessarily an end. uh, what

our definition would be of an end or, and that

would continue. So you went through something,

here's your process. This is what happened now.

This is where I am now. And this is going to

be my next question. But now this part of this

situation that I was in is now continuing and

it's going someplace else. And it sounds kind

of like this is what's happening in your story.

So now, one of the things that I talk about is

that, which I've been talking about lately for

some reason, but that's just the way that it

goes, is that I believe that everybody has different

paths that we go on. Some people think it's just

one path. You're born, you end up someplace at

the end, and that's it. Well, that is true because

eventually everybody dies. But in between that...

We have all different paths that we could go

on. And the reason is because everybody has the

ability to think for themselves. Every human

being and every human being has the opportunity

to make any decision that they want. They don't

have to listen to. Nobody can make anybody do

anything. They don't have to listen to somebody.

You know, they can or they can't. That depends

on the decision that the individual makes. Sometimes

I make good decisions. Things work out. Sometimes

not. That's just the way that life goes. But

because I have all of these different paths that

I could choose from and all these different directions,

right, that I could potentially go into, this

now leads me to all different processes. Indeed.

Process E is really, is really how you say it.

And then, what happens then? Then I go through

that process. Then that might continue, or might

not, but then... that leaves me something else.

Let's just say, for example, and then I go through

another process. So this is how life is. This

is, you know what I mean? I don't know if this

is it. The seasons of life. The seasons of life.

Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. To me, it's a fact to be,

you know what I mean? If somebody wants to agree

or not, it's fine, but. I don't know if it's

actually proven, but the point is that this is

just a conversation that we're having here. So

the point is to this whole thing is that it sounds

like that's kind of the way that your story is

going because it kind of sounds like parts of

it are continuing or branching off right exactly

to go on to another thing. And that's a good

point that I would like to make because not all

my guests have this type of story, which is fine.

because everybody has different situations and

different lives and everything. But that's the

point. One of the points that I would like to

make here is because the process doesn't necessarily

have to end, but it's important for me that I

learn the lesson of what. the process is and

what is the ending or what is happening. It might

not necessarily be an ending. We just talked

about this, what's happening. So it could stop,

it could end, it could continue, whatever. And

that's why a lot of times, this is another reason

why I have this show, that's why a lot of times

it's good to talk about these things because

people think, Lot of times they'll just think

one way something will happen and that's just

the way everything is. Yeah. Yeah Yeah, there's

there's a lot of things that you said there that

like I can really react to ends ends Kind of

share of I mean number one like that a couple

of years ago somebody kind of introduced me to

this this concept or this way of thinking of

seasons of life as I just said it's like That's

that we all yeah I mean it's not this linear

one path sort of thing because even if you think

you're on one path of like I was born, I do this

thing and then I die. There's all sorts of different

things because every single day we make these

different decisions and all this sort of stuff.

And so for me, going through this process of

this discernment process that was career related,

it's not just career related, it's identity.

because for me, I had pursued significant education

and like a lot of people I think in your 20s

and 30s are very driven towards job titles and

salary and rank and all of this, the accolades,

right? Being recognized for getting this award

and getting this da -da -da -da -da. And part

of this transition and part of this process for

me has also been, and I think frankly, part of

this is also being a person now who I guess maybe

I'm. Not I guess. I'm mid -career. I'm kind of

like over the hump of I have more years behind

me that I've worked than the years in front of

me that I want to be working. So I guess that

makes me mid -career. I'm in my mid -forties.

I have two kids. There's a change in my world

view and that change in my world view, I mean

there's a lot of different pieces to that, but

that change in my world view is really a shift

from titles and accolades and awards and salary

and all of this sort of stuff. gathering, I was

in this gathering and acquiring, and now what

I'm doing is I'm going back. I'm going the other

direction. So instead of trying to acquire all

of these things, now what I'm doing is I'm giving

back. So I'm giving back knowledges and experiences.

I'm giving back learning lessons in the forms

of the stories that I tell to help people kind

of build skills to be better in their work. I'm

at a place now too where I'm starting to think

about what working for myself in service of others

looks like instead of working for other organizations

in service of the organization. And so there's

this very different transformational shift of

the way in which I think about work, so like

the mindset of work, but also my identity associated

with that. And of course then that I have switched

industries, I've switched career paths. So there's

these kind of three different things that are

going on there of age and life experience, of

orientation towards collect versus give, And

then also the very concrete one, which is what

happens when people go through these reckoning

processes of saying, like, this career field

doesn't work for me anymore. And again, all of

those things have they have difficulty, they

have strife, they have conflict, they have lots

of question marks and gaps and all of these difficult

sort of things. But there is a recognition in

all three of these pieces is that this is part

of the seasons of life. Like, these are the changes

and transitions that we go through, just as I

can look in the mirror and say, ooh, Mickey,

you have less brown hair than you did five years

ago or 10 years ago, right? Like, I see that

physical transition. I also see the transition

in my orientation to kind of who am I in this

world. It's not this heady journey. It's a very

practical sort of piece, too, of just like, what

does this look like? And I think each one of

us, I mean, as I get together with... other people

that have gone through these career transitions

as I get together with other parents, as I get

together with other people that are kind of in

this like mid -forties to mid -fifties place

of like, who am I? Like these are normal transformations,

but that doesn't mean that they're not painful.

It doesn't mean that they're not difficult, but

it does mean that it's a process and there is

something at the end of it. Yep. Very good. Very

well said. I really appreciate that. So how do

you feel today? based on this whole podcast,

this whole conversation that we've had everything

that. you've said and about your story, your

process, all these different things. How do you

feel today, right now, based on all of that?

I feel good. It's empowering to be able to share

stories and it's exciting to think about that

story impacting or somebody listening to this

and saying, oh, I can relate to Mickey's experience.

Like, it sounds like she's been through some

similar things I've been through. And that, I

think in our world, like the people are missing

connectedness with other people. And people are

feeling, I think, more and more isolated despite

our efforts to get people to feel more connected

with one another. And so my hope in the form

of my feeling right now, to answer your question,

Debbie, is my feeling is a sense of hopefulness

for people to feel connected and to also know

that... processes aren't painless, but they can

also be joyful. They can also be opportunistic.

They can also be full of possibilities and wonder

and also very practical pieces of like, what

the hell do I do now? And all it's one of those

like D all of the above, like all of this stuff.

is relevant. All of it is helpful and all of

it is worth it. And so I think I'm feeling I'm

feeling grateful for the opportunity to tell

my story. I'm feeling hopeful for the folks that

are out there to feel a sense of connectedness

to my story and for other people to also recognize

that like we're all going through these transformations

and these iterations and these seasons of ourselves

because that's what we do as humans. Like we

are not static beings. Yeah, that was good. That

was a good closing. So the only thing I wanted

to add to that would be I like everything you

said, obviously. But the main thing that I wanted

to add, if these processes take me on all different

paths, sometimes I don't want to find where the

end is. Sometimes I don't always want to look

for the end. I want to say this in a way that's

really like understand. broad term, you know

what I mean? Like understandable, like in a broad

term, because sometimes that will give me more

of an open mind to move on in life to accomplish

the things that I want to accomplish. Yeah. Rather

than staying stuck or this is the way it's going

to be or I'm in a depression. or whatever that

situation is. That's where it takes me. And when

that happens, if I can just, I guess, broad my

mind or just think beyond a few different things

every day. When that happens, that can help me

to change my mindset. And then I might think

differently. of all of the things that are gonna

be happening will happen to me in the future.

So it'll, permanently, I don't know, I don't

know if I wanna use the right word permanently,

but it will change, hopefully it will change

my mindset just to allow me to think differently

like that. I don't know. I don't know if it came

out right, but I had it really... Yeah, I mean,

what I'm hearing you saying, like, what I think

about with this is, like, our paths are not prescriptive.

Like, there's no... And that's the problem. That's

the problem, is that people think, because of

this, then that, if this, then that. And when

we start thinking in that sort of mathematical

sort of equation, we will be disappointed. I

think we will... Things will get screwed up.

And so the better thing to think is this is I

mean, this is kind of like a like a very Zen

sort of thing. It's like this is the moment that

I am in. This is what I like and this is what

I hope for. But that doesn't mean it's not going

to come all crashing down tomorrow. And what

do I do if and when that happens? And I think

for anybody who's been through a big, traumatic

transformation, right, whether it's it's a healthy,

it's a relationship thing, it's a financing job

thing, whatever it is, the My hope is that people

have a little bit more sense of presence of here

is the moment that I am in and it's going to

be a little bit different in the next moment.

And this idea that like, well, I'm going to work

in this job for five years or in. In 10 years,

my spouse and I will XYZ or something like that.

These prescriptions that we set up for ourselves,

I think like this is where it becomes really

trapping to us because they become naturally

disappointing because other things happen. And

so like that's that's one of those things. Like

if I if I can offer like a piece of advice or

a piece of wisdom that that I've gleaned from

this is to be as and as a parent, like as a mom

of a five year old and a two year old right now,

kids are the the ultimate Presence makers like

they are so good at helping us as grown adults

Just be in the moment like before I hit the we

hit the record button I was talking about like

it snowed a bunch where I live this morning and

this was it was as on par with like Christmas

morning for my kids and To me. I'm like, oh gosh.

No, I need to do this I need to take care of

this and I have these other things I have going

on But in that moment, I was seeing the world

through their eyes. All they wanted to do was

get out and play. They didn't want to eat breakfast.

They didn't even care about putting their snow

suites on. And there's something to be learned

about this idea of presence in the rest of our

lives. This is the season that we're in, and

it could be different two weeks from now. Like,

my world, your world, could be completely turned

upside down tomorrow. And that... We have to

be okay with that. We have to prepare for that.

And we have to build systems and structures of

resilience within ourselves to be able to say,

this is how it's going to go. And that's going

to be okay. Yep. And that was a very good way

to close. Thank you. I really appreciate that.

As we close this conversation, as a reminder,

that progress really comes from one big decision,

but from the internal choices we repeat. If something

from today's discussion connected with you...

Take a moment to notice how those internal choices

showed up in your own life. This has been the

Internal Shift Show. Thank you for listening

and thank you, Mickey, for being on the show.

I really appreciate it. Thank you for the opportunity,

Debbie.