Rebecca Mullen: The Small Shift That Changed Everything

Welcome to the Internal Shift Show. I'm Debbie

Longo. This show focuses on how internal decisions

shape direction, progress, and long -term outcomes.

Today's conversation uses real -world expertise

to examine how subtle internal shifts can influence

the way people move forward. I'm joined today

by a very special guest, Rebecca Mullen. Good

afternoon, Rebecca. Welcome to the show. Hi,

Debbie. Thank you so much for having me. You're

welcome. Thank you for being here. I'm going

to ask you to tell your story today and point

out a life change that happened to you or traumatic

experience or something like that. And what was

your process and the end result? And the end

result should always be positive. So basically

we're just going from a negative to a positive.

And I do the show for a few different reasons.

And one reason is because people, maybe somebody

is stuck in a negative situation. in something

that they don't want to be in, or just even negative

thinking or something. And they might not know

how to get out of that, or they might stay in

it and they might think that it's normal, or

they might just not know. that it's not normal.

If they think that it's okay, right, there's

always a way out. I don't believe that there's

any negative situation at all because anything

can be turned into a positive. So if I don't

think that it's a problem or a negative situation

or whatever, then it will not be. And this is

really what we're trying to do here because everybody

has their own individual story. But there are

parts to people's stories that other people can

relate to. And this is what we're trying to accomplish

here. So if you could do that for me, I would

appreciate it. Thank you. Absolutely. And thanks

for the invitation, because it's such a great

premise to have us all share stories about a

really negative thing in our life that we were

able to turn around, because our humanity, we

all have things in common. So what makes me laugh,

Debbie, is you're asking for this big, traumatic

thing that made my life so difficult. And you're

going to laugh when I tell you it is that I couldn't

get my husband to make the bed. But I actually

have talked to a lot of people that struggle

similarly, and they're like, oh, I can relate.

I can relate. But here's the thing. If you, if

you understand where I was coming from, I was

this little five year old girl whose parents

divorced and it was a messy divorce and my parents

didn't talk. And, and I grew up thinking surely

one day I will be getting divorced. And somehow

unconsciously I had pinned this bed making to

the that's the signal. See, I told you someday

we're gonna get divorced. Here it is, front and

center in my bedroom. I can't get my husband

to make the bed. And it wasn't for lack of trying.

I felt like I asked him over and over and over.

Now, here's the thing though, Debbie, is I wasn't

asking clean. I was asking dirty. But I didn't

know that at the time. That's the transformation

I'm forecasting. So while I'm in it, I feel like

I'm begging, honestly begging with the earnestness

of please help me save our marriage. I'm begging

my husband to make the bed and he doesn't. And

I come and I get up early and he gets up later

and I would walk into our bedroom and there was

this rumpled pile of sheets and blankets and

I would just die a little bit inside. think it's

so goofy that I attached so much meaning to this

rumpled pile of sheets and blankets. But there

it was. And there were, if you want to hear more

about why I was lonely, the desperation that

I felt, I can go into that. But if I've set it

up well enough, I'd love to tell you how I got

myself out of that. Honestly, I'm embarrassed

to tell you that It was probably 17 years because

when we got married, I'm very crafty and I made

all these gorgeous linen pillowcases. Decorate.

This was when Laura Ashley was big and like three

deep stacks of pillows on the bed to make it

just this princess bed. That's what my bed looked

like. And so to come in and it was just this

rumpled pile. I felt like we could be living

like prince and princess. And yet you're just

leaving all these pillows scattered on the floor.

But one day I came across the work of Byron Katie.

Byron Katie asks the question, is it true? And

the thought that I found that was floating around

inside my head was my husband should want to

make the bed. That really is what He should want

to make the bed to prove he cares about our marriage.

He should want to make the bed to make me happy.

He should want to make the bed because he wants

the Prince bed too. He should want to make the

bed because our romantic life is the core of

our marriage. I had all these thoughts, but I

got that beautiful question from Byron Katie,

is it true? And the instant, Debbie, the instant

I asked that question, I laughed because I was

like, no. David shouldn't want to make the bed.

David doesn't care about a made bed. And that

was where my freedom began. I had to do some

work beyond that, but that was the transformational

moment for me when I began to think about it

differently, that it wasn't, he should want what

I want because Dave Davis, like Mr. gear guy

and outside man. And he doesn't, he just, thought

those pillows were a hassle. So then I began

to notice how I talked to him about the bed.

And I like to think of it that I was asking dirty.

So when I, all those years, when I thought I

was begging him, Debbie, this is what it sounded

like. David, you never make the bed. Well, that's

not the same as saying it's really important

to me. Could you make the bed? I mean, you can

tell that's a really different kind of That's

not a request. That's really me shaming my husband.

I would say things like, I would go into the

room and try to demonstrate in front of him how,

you know, isn't this great how I'm making the

bed, but he would just watch me. So all these

hints that I thought I was leaving, he was completely

oblivious until one day I realized, OK, I'm just

going to ask super clean. And for me, this is

the transformation that carried into my life.

For me, a clean ask is that I'm going to state

my feelings. How do I feel when I see this unmade

bed? Then I'm going to make it clear what I want.

I want us to care about our bed because we care

about our marriage. And then the third element

of a clean ask is to give the agency to my husband.

Somehow. I want to ask the question so there's

a yes or no implied. So it could be, would you

be willing to make the bed, Dave? Or what would

it take, blankets and sheets wise, that you would

be interested in making this bed? So my three

steps became, first, I'm talking about my feelings.

Dave, I don't know why this is, but for some

reason, I have attached the success of our marriage

to this unmade bed. And because my parents divorced,

I feel scared that if we don't have a maid bed,

if we can't agree on this, then our marriage

is doomed. And the look on my husband's face,

Debbie, it told the whole story. He was like,

what? This was such a newsflash to him. And then

secondly, I asked, you know, I said clearly what

I would want. I said, it would mean a lot to

me if I always saw our bed made. And if you tended

it, then I would feel like you were tending our

marriage. And then step three, I asked in a way

that he could say yes or no. That was the scary

part because he might say no. So I said, what

would it take blankets and sheets wise for you

to deal with this bed? Would you be willing to

do that? And Debbie, not a day since that day

has he missed making the bed. Isn't that crazy?

Oh my gosh. So. For me, that little encapsulation

of how scared I was at something happening, the

assumptions I made that Dave knew how I was feeling

inside, and really importantly, asking cleanly

with agency so that my husband could be invited

to say yes or no, that changed the trajectory

of our marriage. And just with that made bed,

unmade bed, I have changed the way I ask about

everything. If I'm asking if he wants to join

us, you know, for dinner with some friends, I'll

say I would really love to do this. I also know

that you get really tired after work. Would you

be willing to meet at a restaurant? So trying

to bring that three step clarity all the way

into our relationship, our communication has

cleaned up enormously. And I don't even think

my husband has changed the way he asks. Well,

he has now because he's heard me do this over

and over. Yeah, that's my story. Very interesting.

I like it. It was explained very well and I thank

you for that. What was the process where you

got upset because he wasn't making the bed and

repeatedly you asked him different things? And

then you thought or you knew that something should

really be done about this because the reason

why I'm asking this is because it seemed like

you kind of thought that that was one of the

reasons why you could have potentially got a

divorce because you thought about that when you

were younger or whatever, you know, that because

your parents got a divorce, you were gonna get

one. that you were thinking because sometimes

I have that, and this is kind of normal because

we kind of program ourselves without us even

realizing it. That's just really the way the

brain works, but that's another conversation

for another day. So you kind of thought that,

but you were able to overcome that. So what did

that process look exactly like? And then when

you got to those three points that you've been

talking about. So, how did you feel? Did you

have extra help? Did somebody tell you something?

What was that process exactly? How did it go?

Well, I think you really nailed it on the head

when you said, I was making assumptions. I was

telling myself stories in my head that weren't

based in reality. They were just in my head.

And so it took me time to disentangle the assumptions

from because... Debbie, it actually felt honestly

linked that if we didn't have a maid bed, if

my husband wasn't the one to tend it, that meant

that equaled he doesn't care about our marriage.

And that really was the thought I had to find

and question it. And it was that that beautiful

phrase from Byron Katie. Is that true? Just that

I got to tell you, I think. That's why it took

me so many years to unravel it because I had

to get practiced asking, is it true with lesser

things in my life? This one, the roots were deep,

like a failed marriage was the most hurtful thing

I could imagine. And so I had to practice with

asking myself, is it true with other things in

my life? Like he expects me to have dinner ready

and waiting like that was so not true, but I

bought into that cultural message stuff like

that. Does that make any sense? Yeah, it definitely

does. And I thank you for explaining it that

way. So did you really think that the problem

with your marriage was really going to continue

if you didn't change and you didn't get him to

understand that he needs to make the bed because

You said that when you use those three points

and different things that changed the whole entire

relationship with everything he thought and then

you did and everything because once you do that

and those three points are just an example of

many different ways to do it. But once you did

that, you changed your mindset, which now changed

his mindset instead of changing his mindset first.

Absolutely. And then you change your mindset,

which that's not how it works. And this is one

thing that I teach. Because what goes around

comes around. So I have to change my thinking.

Yes. And my process and my outcome in order to

change people around me. Because I'm not really

changing anybody because I'm really not controlling

it, but I'm just doing it so I can make my life

easier. Right now. Also, another thing, too,

is that when you were talking, I was thinking

about that. People have many different paths

that they could go on. So some people believe

you live and then you go through your life and

then there's one path and then you die and you

either go on it or not. I don't believe that.

I believe that there's many different paths that

we could choose. So, like, you did this, and

that was great when you fixed your relationship,

but you could have gotten a divorce. You could

have not fixed it. You could have not listened

to whatever it was, the help and stuff that you

got from this gentleman that you were speaking

about, the speaker, and then you got the three

points and all these different things. That didn't

have to happen. And you could have gotten a divorce.

So there are other points because then whatever

else that it was you were thinking I don't know

what you were thinking But the point is that

there's still there's always different paths

that you could have went on But you didn't do

that and this is the message. This is the whole

point right to this podcast This is what we talk

about here, right? Is how this negative situation

happened. It doesn't matter what it is. It doesn't

have to be like this big thing. I just say it's

a thing, whatever it is. I don't know what it

is because he couldn't make the bed. That was

a big thing for you because that changed your

marriage and your thinking or whatever. And that

is just it could people think it's a little thing.

It's not little or big. It's the way that you

went through this thing. So people have many

different paths. But the point is that whatever

path I choose is going to determine what the

outcome is to be. And that's the path that I

choose. That's not the path that anybody else

chooses, because I'm a human being and I have

the ability to make decisions for myself. And

that's really the bottom line. So what I choose

is what you know what I mean? That's why we don't

want to continue the negative. We always want

to go into the positive. I think your. claiming

that personal agency of what am I going to choose?

That is at the heart of this transformation for

me because I just kept asking myself, and I'm

going to own the fact that early on I was maybe

a little codependent in the, well, what else

can I do? What else can I do? What else can I

do? However, I was asking the question earnestly

and along the way I sort of tripped. into this

realization that when I asked what else can I

do, what I'm really doing is saying the only

person whose behavior I can change is my own.

So what can I do in this situation to change?

And then I got introduced to Seth Godin introduced

me to to the idea of the inner lizard. And he

has this blog. He's been doing it for decades.

And this was a long time ago. He called that

inner fear our inner lizard. And I grabbed onto

that and I sort of began to connect the dots.

We have all these seeds that are planted in our

life. And for me, thinking about I have this

inner lizard, which is triggering my amygdala

to have this fight or flight response. And I

began to get curious about why does the unmade

bed make me so upset? Being able to ask that

helped me unravel it. You know, and then I could

say then, like you said, claiming that agency

piece of, well, what can I do in this moment?

I can look at it from David's point of view.

When I looked at it from David's point of view,

it wasn't personal. It was just his taste. And

it eased everything inside of me. But then, and

this is what happens with our fears, those inner

lizard fears. that make us feel unsafe. I somehow

had told myself I will be unsafe if our marriage

fails. If we get a divorce, that's it for me.

And so I was so trepidatious because of that

high stakes. And as soon as I looked at it from

Dave's point of view, it was no longer high stakes.

It was just He has a preference for not dealing

with blankets and sheets. And I have a preference

for this gorgeous bed. And it wasn't personal

anymore. So that helped enormously. So that was

good. Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

So I feel that you are kind of going into your

feelings a little bit, not only about what happened

in the process, but how you felt when all of

these things were happening. at all the different

points of your process and everything that we're

talking about. And that is something to me that

the listener should really pay attention to.

You know why? Because when somebody's in a negative

situation, it doesn't matter what it is, to them,

it's a big thing. You know what I mean? To them,

it's something where they wanna change their

life. They don't have to think about anything.

They don't, because a lot of people like when

I've been doing this a long time and when I work

with people, that's the first thing they say

is, am I gonna feel upset? Am I gonna lash out

on somebody? Am I gonna start screaming and yelling?

We don't know. They automatically go to the most

negative thing. that could happen as they process.

And then what do they do? Then they talk themselves

out of it. And then they say, screw it. I don't

want to be in that situation. And then I'm just

going to stay where I am now because it's comfortable.

You know, that's the whole thing. So this is

why what a feeling is not only like sometimes

you have to work a little hard in order to get

to a place that you really in order to get really

good results. So like if I go to the gym and

I work hard, I'm going to lose weight and I'm

going to build muscle. But if I go to the gym

and I look at the weights and I don't do any

work and I walk out, what's going to happen?

Am I going to lose weight? Am I going to build

muscle? No. So this is the thing. And that's

painful. Building muscle and going to the gym

and all this stuff. It's not it's a daunting

task. It's not something that easy. It's easy.

But the rewards I get from that. is a lot, you

know, so this is why the way that you explained

is very good. So how do you feel now? How do

you you can say something? How do you feel today

as a result of everything we just talked about

in this podcast and say whatever you want to

say also? So before we talk about how I feel

today, I want to piggyback on your idea of it's

daunting at the gym because. I think as I'm talking

with you today, I'm recognizing that there was

a moment right before I made that very vulnerable,

clean ask to my husband. I sort of had to face

this moment of what's the worst thing if David

never wants to make the bed and that Debbie just

finding that question to ask was so hard because

I was so certain for so many years. Well, it

means the end of our marriage. But I really said,

come on, Rebecca, if Dave never makes the bed,

what will happen? What's the worst thing that

could happen? And I kind of realized, well, I

guess we would not have a made bed and something

quieted inside of me. And I think that's the

daunting thing of going to the gym and you see

all those weights. What's the worst thing if

I just walk out of here? Well, I'm not going

to lose weight. I'm not going to get strong.

But if I do stay, if I do lean in and I pick

up the weights, I'll get a little stronger, even

if I only do it for 10 minutes. And so for me,

it was being willing to ask, what's the worst

case scenario? And then remind me, you said,

how do I feel today? Was that the question? So

based on everything that we talked about in this

podcast, the end result, how do you feel? Like

I said, that being able to ask cleanly became

a template. in our marriage. And Dave's been

making the bed for years and years and years.

But that ability to identify the three parts

of a difficult question. How do I feel? What

is it I really want? And then how do I give the

agency to my sweetheart? That has slowed me down

because there are so many times that assumptions

fill my head and I want to speak loudly and quickly

and you know, but if I slow myself down and say,

what am I afraid of or what feeling am I having

that might, I might be feeling anxious. I might

be feeling lonely. I might be feeling sad. If

I get in touch with that feeling, then I've stopped

that what Seth Godin calls the inner lizard.

I've stopped that automatic response of fight,

flight, freeze. And then I can thaw and be just,

I can show up really authentically, slowly, full

of curiosity instead of assumption, and just

say, this is what I want. Do you want to do it

with me? Or this is what I want. What do you

want? And not feel threatened if Dave doesn't

want the same thing I want. I just want him to

be able to welcome my authentic feelings, desires.

I mean, he doesn't have to agree. I want to feel

seen, and then I want him to make choices. Yes,

and that was very, very, very good. And that

was a very good way to close. And also, I would

like to say in closing that anybody could get

through anything. There is no such thing as a

negative situation, and everybody can meet their

goals and dreams. It's just a matter of, am I

willing? Can I create the willingness? And then

just take a mini step. a baby step and see what

the results of that baby step is gonna be. Whether

you get a coach, I'm a coach, but I'm not promoting

myself, or a therapist, or read a book, or all

the things that we talked about today. And if

you take that baby step and then you say, well,

wow, this is really, really good, then take another

one. Don't go backwards, back to where you are.

And that's how you take a negative situation

and you turn it into a positive. It doesn't matter

what it is, because to the individual, that's

happening. To somebody else, it could be something

else. But we're talking about the individual

changing, the listener. Love it. Yeah, so thank

you very much. So what stands out from this conversation

is the meaningful change that built through consistent

internal decisions and traumatic moments. If

something resonated with you, consider where

those internal decisions are already shaping

your path. This has been the Internal Shift Show.

Thank you for listening and thank you, Rebecca,

for being on the show. I really appreciate it.

Thank you for having me, Debbie. It's been wonderful

talking with you. Thank you.