Zander Sprague: Grief, Sibling Loss, and the Internal Shift Toward Healing

Welcome to the Internal Shift Show. I'm Debbie

Longo, Transformational Coach. This show explores

how the way we think, decide, and respond internally

influences where we end up over time. Today's

conversation draws on real experience and expertise

to look at how small internal shifts can change

direction, momentum, and outcomes. I'm joined

by a very special guest today, Xander Sprague.

Xander, good afternoon. Welcome to the show.

Thank you so much for having me on, Debbie. Thank

you for being here. I'm going to ask you to tell

your story today and point out a part in your

story where you were went through a change a

life change or a traumatic experience or something

like that and you went through a process and

you came out the other side and that. And results

should always be positive or the result of whatever

it is that we're talking about. Now, I do this

show for a few different reasons. And one reason

is that everybody has their own individual story.

But there are stories that people can relate

to and other people's stories. Now, maybe somebody

is stuck in a situation that they are in or a

scenario. Maybe somebody thinks that. this is

gonna be normal. This is the way that their life

is gonna be. Maybe somebody doesn't know how

to get out of a certain situation that they're

in. It could be even just a problem or a feeling

or just a thought. It could be anything. That's

the reason why I do this show and also for education.

So somebody could say, wow, I'm going through

this same thing and this person got through this

and it doesn't sound so bad. It sounds like I

can get through it. It sounds like I can go I

can do it So also for motivation. So these are

some of the reasons why I have it So if you could

please do that for me, thank you. I would appreciate

it. Absolutely so the thing I wanted to talk

about was 29 years ago, my older sister Lucy

was murdered and there were that was in 1996

and There are many things I thought I might deal

with in my life But to be honest, murder really

was not one of them. I remember when I got the

phone call from my father, my father was a, was

a good storyteller and it took them a long time

to get to the point. There were a lot of details,

which looking back for perhaps superfluous, but

I get why, you know, why it took so long. This

was obviously incredibly difficult to tell. myself

and to tell my younger sister, but I just never

in a million years would have thought that that

would have happened. And I remember driving in

at the time I was living in just outside of Boston.

I was driving into my parents' house in Boston.

I was thinking about all the things that I was

going to have to do because this, I knew this

was the worst possible thing that could have

happened to my parents. And I thought they'd

sort of be catatonic in the corner. Well, luckily

my parents, were a lot more resilient than I

gave them credit. Funny how kids always think

their parents aren't resilient, and yet we are.

So it was a really, I mean, it's devastating

to lose a sibling. And I didn't even know how

to really process that. The next day, my father

and I had to fly to Chicago where my sister was

living and was murdered. And we had to talk to

the police and the DA. We had to go identify

our body. All of this incredibly traumatic and

it was overwhelming. And so after we get through

the funeral and all of that, honestly, it felt

like I fell off a cliff. I went from having too

many people around to having no one around as

I started to navigate my way through. How am

I going to start to heal? I discovered that there's

not. A lot of resources for siblings. Uh, one

of the experiences I had and honestly still have

not as much, but I, I, a lot of people knew,

knew my family from Boston. People would see

me on the street and go, Oh my gosh, Zen or how

are your parents? Now one person asked how I

was. And I had, I had these moments where I thought

my loss was less significant than my parents.

And the fact of the matter is that, no, it's

not less significant. It's equally as, it's equally

as significant. Just a few facts. The longest

relationships we have in our life are with our

siblings. We reasonably expect that that relationship,

barring someone having a known illness or something

is going to last the majority of our lifetime.

I was 28. Lucy was 30. A really important chapter

ended. At first it was really hard. It was a

struggle just to get out of bed. I was so tired.

The depression was there. One of the things that

I discovered that really helped was even though

it was really hard, I got myself back into the

gym. I started to exercise and exercises. It's

so important to break that circle of depression.

Cause what happens is you feel depressed, which

makes you tired, which makes you sleep more,

which makes you more depressed, which just keeps

the circle going. And I found. That once I started

to exercise again, that I was kind of breaking

that cycle because while exercise releases endorphins,

that's our natural antidepressant. One of those

big moments for me was on the Massachusetts turnpike,

where it's probably about four months into my

journey, where I had been struggling with why

did this happen? Really just kept circling around

on that. And I just had a moment of clarity where

I'm like, I'm not going to have the answer to

that question. So I need to let go of that because

I will spend the rest of my life trying to find

that answer. And I'm not, I'm just not going

to have that answer. I need to let go of that.

And when I had that moment, it was like this

weight was lifted off of me. I wasn't just stuck

in this circle and I was able to start to move

forward. Let's fast forward a little. I was,

I moved out, out to San Francisco. I love San

Francisco Bay area. It's where I live. And I

had coffee with a friend of mine. And as probably

about four years after Lucy was killed, she had

just lost her brother and I was just someone

from college. I was like, let me be there to

support you. I know how this is. And like any

traumatic or, or hard event, it's always. Nice

to be able to talk to someone else who's who's

going through this. There's so much of that conversation

that you get to have where you get to talk about

the things that you really want to talk about

and your friends are great. You're your friends

really want to help you. But when you have to

spend 20 minutes explaining where you're coming

from to get to the thing that you want to talk

about, they just can't, they don't know. I mean,

it's, it's like trying to explain what's like

what it is to. play in snow. If you've never

done it, I could be really descriptive, but if

you haven't done it, you don't know. But she

said something interesting. She said, I, I went

to the bookstore and there were lots of books

on loss of a parent, loss of a child, loss of

a pet, but there was really nothing on loss of

a sibling. And as I walked away from that, I

had another one of those aha moments. I'm like,

well, I know about that. So I wrote a book because

I was like, I don't want other sibling survivors

to have to go through this. Like there's, there's

gotta be help. And maybe I'm part of that help.

So I wrote the book and first of all, let me

say, I'm a talker, not a typer. So I had to figure

out how to write a book, end up dictating the

book. And it was really cathartic to be able

to write about my experience. I reached out to

friends of mine who had also lost siblings and,

and they were nice enough to answer some questions.

So there was sort of a, there was a good resource

for, for people. And then I sat on the book for

five years because I was afraid to release it.

I was afraid people wouldn't like it. And that's

an important part of the journey for me, the

fear of, of actually putting out into the world.

about what happened. I was really scared, but

I got tired of hearing myself say, I'm coming

out with a book because I wasn't, I wasn't doing

anything to make it happen. And I think that's

true for a lot of things. We say we can do something,

but if we're not actually doing it, then we're

not. So I released the book, surprisingly, or

to my own surprise, people liked it. And that

actually started me on this whole journey of

really working to advocate for sibling survivors

to help get the word out. I really want for people

who've lost a brother or sister to know that

help is available, that there are resources to

change that conversation. So it's not, how are

your parents, but how is the family doing? How

are the siblings doing? Cause it's so hard. It

feels really lonely. It was really hard that

my grief wasn't acknowledged. I struggled with

that. Like, as I said, that idea that I somehow,

my loss was less significant and it's not, here's

just a startling statistic for you. In the United

States, there's over 1 .3 million new sibling

survivors every single year. My book came out

in first edition, came out in 2008. So there's

roughly 18 million new sibling survivors since

my book came out. That's a lot of people. And

there are. To not know where, where you can go

and talk to people who, who get it. I often joke

that I'm walking down the street, but I don't

have, there's no pen I wear. There's no secret

handshake or hand signal to say I'm a sibling

survivor. Cause I guarantee when I'm, when I'm

just out and about and I'm talking to people

and I. I share about Lucy. So many people are

like, Oh, I lost my brother or sister. And sadly,

a lot of times I'm one of the first people they've

got gotten to talk about their loss. Some families

simply don't even acknowledge that that person

was ever alive. There's no pictures. They don't

talk about the birthday. They don't talk about

them. And that can be really hard. I think a

lot of people need to talk through, talk about

their loss, what they're feeling, what they miss.

Look, I don't canonize my sister. She was a fantastic

person, but there were days where she was really

not nice to me. And that is true of any sibling

relationship. One of the things I discovered

is both my sisters are some of my best friends.

They know me better than I know myself, and I

know them better than they know themselves. And

think about like, With with your siblings when

you guys when you get into an argument, you don't

start off nice You you swing for the fences,

you know, you have the dirt on them. They have

the dirt on you You're throwing the things that

you know is going to to hurt them the thing that

they're embarrassed about that they don't want

to admit and When that's gone, it's so hard.

There's just those conversations as I'm getting

older And my mom is aging. It's great to be able

to talk to my younger sister about what's going

on or when parents inevitably annoy you or get

on you about something. And for some people,

there were only two children and one of them

died. So now they have no one else. One of the

things that I discovered was that there were

new expectations for me. I was the middle child.

It was great. I tucked him behind Lucy. I got

to watch her make all kinds of mistakes and like,

well, I'm not going to do it that way. Now all

of a sudden I'm the oldest child, depending on

what your family, how your family is and perhaps

culture or religion, the oldest child, there

are certain expectations. I all of a sudden got,

I had a job at 28 that I had no training for,

you know, that, that journey is difficult. Everyone's

grief journey is different. And there isn't any

right way to do it. I'll tell you the one question

that people still say to me. And I'm like, wow,

I wish people wouldn't say this. People say,

Oh, you're not over losing your sister. No, I'm

never going to be over losing Lucy. I say that

and people, people smile and they laugh and go,

well, of course. And yet people still say it

to me 29 years later. And I'm like, no, what

I like to say is. I'm working my way through

the loss some days better than others. I talk

about Lucy almost every day. In part, that's

my own choice to say every day I have a choice

whether I want to talk about Lucy. And for me,

that's how I keep her alive in my life. My family

and I have a charitable foundation in Lucy's

memory. And we do all these really cool things

in Lucy's memory. And it feels so much better

to celebrate the rainbow that was Lucy's life.

And support causes that Lucy either, we know

she liked, or we're like, no, we, we think Lucy

would, would like this and would want us to support

this. It feels so much better to do that than

to just focus on the fact that my sister was

murdered. I lost her. She's not here. Yeah. That

doesn't change. That will never change. That

dot at the end, that blacked out at the end.

Yeah, that happened, but you want to know she

was a light for 30 years. There's, there's, there's

all this. stuff that she did and who she was.

And I'm like, it feels good to do, to do these

things. It's so much more positive to say, yes,

my sister died, but here's other stuff I'm doing.

I say all the time, I'm just a little busier

because I'm doing some extra work for Lucy. And

a big part of the work I just do in general is

around, as I said, supporting other sibling survivors.

One of the things that I discovered 19 years

into my journey. And I have to say, I wish I

would have known about this a lot, a lot sooner

is a great organization called the compassionate

friends, which is for families that have lost

a child or a sibling. And I currently full disclosure,

I am the sibling representative on the board

of directors, but I love this organization. It

is so great. to get to be in, in rooms with other

sibling survivors. And again, people who get

me, who see me, who acknowledge my grief, get

to talk to people about the stuff that's going

on that comes up, just all of those things. One

of the things that was really challenging and

less so now, cause I think they say time heals

and I don't know that it heals so much as you

just get more tools. that allow you to be able

to more effectively deal with what's coming up.

But one of the things that happens all the time

is you have those unexpected reminders of your

person. It could be a song on the radio. It could

be some kind, you know, could be perfume or cologne

or a scent of food, something, something, some

place that, that you go and that can derail your

day. And that certainly happened to me the first

Probably five years I'd be going along fine and

something song would come on the radio and then

all of a sudden It was a really hard day and

I found myself crying Fun fact about crying.

It's actually really good for us because when

we cry We have stress hormones that are coming

out through our tears that we're now getting

out So it's actually a really good thing for

us to to cry in supporting someone who's lost

a sibling Or anyone who's lost has some kind

of a loss and it just doesn't have to be death.

It could be end of a relationship, job, a pet,

something. If someone wants to cry, it's not

comfortable. But if you just sit there and gently

hold the space for them, it can be so helpful.

It was really hard. Those days I was having a

challenging time and my friends didn't know how

to deal with it. And they bailed. So now I felt

even more alone. I felt embarrassed that I had

the, that I was being emotional, but I couldn't

help it. It was normal. I say to people all the

time, you don't have a miracle sentence that

will make it better for me. And I don't have

a miracle sentence for you, but that's okay.

Sometimes even though it doesn't feel enough,

just saying, I'm so sorry for your loss, that

acknowledgement that you, that they've experience

something that's challenging is so important.

And it is so, yeah, I mean, I just go back to

acknowledgement of loss is, is important. Um,

I could never do a study to, to, to point towards

causality or something, but my experience over

the last 29 years is that unacknowledged grief

has this profound effect on people. And it can

lead to some not so healthy behaviors as a way

to cope with it. And perhaps if we all just said,

I'm so sorry for your loss. You don't have to

look again. What can someone say that will make

it better? We don't have that here in the United

States. I have to say we are absolutely horrible

at dealing with death. We sort of treat it like

it's the most communicable disease in the world.

Oh, Debbie, you, you, you experienced death.

If I talk to you, it might rub off on me and,

and, and so we'll talk. No, that's not the way

that that actually works. Okay. My sister was

murdered. If you got close to me and talk to

me, that doesn't mean that someone in your family

is now going to get murdered. It's they just

doesn't work that way. So talk to people. I'm

a really social person. When I went back to work,

everyone knew about it. Uh, this was. All over

the news, all my colleagues knew about it and

they'd come up and they'd sort of pause at my

cube and then they'd walk on. And I was sort

of prepared for people to talk to me, but then

they didn't talk to me. And for me personally,

it was like the worst possible torture of people

not talking to me. So I put up a sign that said,

it's okay to talk to me. I just gave people permission

to talk to me. And then people did. They started

to talk to me. Yeah, that was good. So what was

your process when you lost the sibling? Now we're

going to go all the way fast forward when you

wrote the book or when you were thinking about

writing the book. What was your feelings? What

was your thinking? How did you go through? I

don't know how many years it was, but how did

you go through that part of the process from

whatever it is that you could think of? You mean

from when I lost Lucy, do when I started to write

the book or when you started to think about writing

the book, when you, I mean, I honestly started

to think about writing the book as I was walking

away from this coffee shop because I'm like,

Oh, I know that I could write a book about that.

And then I went home and I actually just sat

down and kind of wrote out a rough outline. But

that process in between that, I mean, the first

thing was getting To in the movie Sleepless in

Seattle, Tom Hanks gets on the phone with the

radio psychologist and she asks how he's doing

and he says, well, I'm breathing in and I'm breathing

out and pretty soon I won't have to think about

that. And that really stuck with me when I was

going through this. Cause that literally was

where I was at. I got to, I got to remember to

breathe here. This feels so overwhelming. And

then. With a little time, I was able to not think

about breathing and to move on. As I said, letting

go of the why did this happen was a huge step

for me. When I'm talking with other sibling survivors,

sometimes they're just stuck at why did this

happen? I try and share what my own thought process,

which is I'm not going to know this. This just

isn't something I'm going to have an answer for.

Depending on what your own belief system is,

perhaps you say, all right, when I die, maybe

I'll find out. But along the way, I went to therapy

because I wanted a safe place to talk about it.

I wanted to make sure I felt like I was doing

okay, but I wanted some professional licensed

mental health help to just make sure I was actually

processing things well. Some people pull that

proverbial blanket over their head and don't

deal with it. But here's life goes on, whether

we participate today or not, our life is still

going on. And if you sort of don't want to deal

with it for 10 years, you want to know what 10

years has gone by. And I wanted to figure out

how I could deal with this. I wanted to talk.

I wanted to figure out how I could. Pull out

those memories of Lucy and not have it be sort

of like the life raft that you pull the cord

on and all of a sudden it just fills up the whole

space you're in. And that's how it was at the

beginning. As I said, some unexpected reminder

would just derail the day. My dad, probably about

nine months after Lucy died, I called him one

day. I was just talking to him and I asked how

his day was. He goes, Well, it was going pretty

good until I put my hand in this jacket and I

pulled, I had a, a matchbook from a diner he'd

gone to with Lucy a year before she died. And

he, and he's like, am I day my deal like half

my day derailed? I was just so sad about it.

I missed her so much. And my, and my family and

I honestly, for the last 29 years have talked

about. Lucy, we tell the stories, the good and

the bad. And I think that's important. I think

talking about who this person is helps keep them

alive in your, in your life. That's so important.

That's how we remember people is to talk about

them or do things. One of the things I did on

my healing journey was I did a, Created a basically

a music video to a song that was around in 1997

called gone away by the offspring. And it's sort

of a whole song about loss. And one of the lines

is you're up in heaven and I would trade if I

could, like, I miss you so bad. I, I mean, I

would trade and I went around the town. I took

video of. The town that we grew up in Massachusetts

and the schools that Lucy went to and other places.

And for me, that was incredibly cathartic. Writing

the book was really cathartic. I got to sit down

and talk about all of the process. Part of the,

one of the things I talk about in the book is

Not receiving lines before I lost Lucy, I thought

receiving lines were the most barbaric thing.

I mean, what could I possibly do in this poor

family? And there's all these people coming through.

But when I went through it, I actually found

it to be cathartic, very, actually I felt more

energized because here were all these people

who knew Lucy. And the receiving line serves

this dual purpose of both sides getting their

their loss acknowledged. And that was really

powerful. Yeah. So I just want to say talk a

little bit and then close when people go through

like you were describing any type of loss. What

happens is that it's a loss, right? You lose

something. Yes. So now the person might be like,

that's not part of my life anymore. So now the

person has to make a different life or go on

without that person or that thing or whatever

it is. Now, the thing with that is, to me, that's

just a matter of conforming to that new life,

to that new behavior. And that has a lot to do

with acceptance. So now I am accepting that This

person or thing is no longer here. And now I

have to have a new life. And this is just how

it is. This is the way that my life is going

to be. And now I'm going on a completely different

direction. So because that person's not here,

my life would have been different if that person

was here. So that kind of closed a chapter in

my life and to make another new chapter. Now

I'm not saying it's good. I'm very sorry for

your loss. I'm not trying to justify anything.

No, no, I'm just saying people this happens whether

it's a death or Somebody just leaves like you

lose contact with a friend or something like

that There's all different types of losses and

what happens is if I am able to embrace that

and I know sometimes it's hard but because I

have to go through that process to write the

grieving process if I'm able to embrace that

and I'm able to say Now I can do something good

with my life. I can do something different. And

this is just how it was meant to be. It's an

unfortunate situation, but that might take me,

like you were talking about writing the book,

that might take me into another part of my life

that's really, really, really gonna benefit me.

And also, I don't believe that people really

die, but that's probably another podcast for

another day, because... Yeah, I could always

keep keep in contact with with people whether

they're dead or alive, but that's just my own

thing. Absolutely. I mean, part of it is that

acceptance that this change has happened and

that again, you don't have to like it, but you

do actually have to accept it. And yeah, I'm

a firm believer that that through the loss of

Lucy, it set me on on the path that I'm on, where

I'm a thought leader on Sibling loss, I'm out

there talking about the importance of sibling

loss and the number of people that are as I said,

walking around who have lost a sibling and feel

very alone. I hear that all the time. I know

I feel that where I'm like, I, I know the siblings

survive what we're everywhere and yet we're nowhere

because as I said, there there's not a. some

way to, to, to walk around and advertise and

not that you want to advertise, but sort of say,

I am a sibling survivor. And as I'm walking down

the street, I bump into you, Debbie, and you

go, Oh, Hey, we share something, whatever it

is. Well, there's support groups. There are other,

there are a lot of things that we can do to get

an acceptance and an understanding. of what's

going on and allow us to help. But that's again,

that's another podcast. But these are some things.

So so we have we have to close. So if you want

to say for another 30 seconds or so, if you want

to say something, you can. You're not, you know,

passion, friends says you need not walk alone.

There is there is support out there. If you've

lost a sibling, compassionate friends dot org.

Really, I know it's not supposed to advertise,

but it's such an important resource. for parents

and, but especially siblings, the, the people

who, who discover us are like, Oh my gosh, saved

my life. And that's part of my mission is just

to, I really want to be able to help other sibling

survivors. It's part of Lucy's legacy. Yeah,

so that's what I just really wanted to say as

two sentences in closing is that it that this

in itself is a very big process and the fastest

and the most productive way that I can to accept

the loss and understand that this is taking me

to a very, very, very good place. I'm constantly

staying in the positive and I'm constantly moving

forward. because I can easily sit in the negative

for me for the rest of my life. So this is absolutely.

Yeah. So as we close this conversation is a reminder

that progress really comes from one big decision,

but from the internal choices we repeat. If something

from today's discussion connected with you, take

a moment to notice how those internal choices

show up in your own life. This has been the internal

shift show. Thank you for listening. And thank

you, Xander, for being on the show. I really

appreciate it. Thank you.