Zulma Williams: Beating Breast Cancer, Rebuilding Her Life, and Refusing to Stay Stuck

Welcome to the Internal Shift Show. I'm Debbie

Langeau, a transformational coach. This show

explores how the way we think, decide, and respond

internally influences where we end up over time.

Today's conversation draws on real experience

and expertise to look at how small internal shifts

can change direction, momentum, and outcomes.

We have a very special guest today, Zuma Williams.

Good afternoon, Zuma. Welcome to the show. Thank

you so much for having me. How are you? Good,

I'm good. Thank you for being here. I am going

to ask you to tell your story today and point

out a situation or a life change or a traumatic

experience or something where you were in a negative

and you went through a process and then you came

out on the positive. So the end result should

always be positive. So I do this show for a few

different reasons. And one of the main reasons

is that everybody has their own individual story.

But there are things in other people's stories

that they can relate to. And sometimes people

are stuck. or they stay stuck or they're uneducated

or they don't know that there's a light at the

end of the tunnel. So they don't see that this

negative situation or whatever it is that they're

in the negative with can turn into a positive

and they could get through it. And there's a

lot of different reasons why they stay this way

and why they think this way. So this podcast

is really just an education also to try to motivate

somebody so the person can see that they don't

have to be where they are now. They can make

a decision right now, right this second. Forget

about the past. The past is the past. It's done.

I could put my foot down. right this second,

and I can say, I listened to this podcast, and

Zuma went through this, and I think that's awesome.

And I have the same situation. And right now,

I can make a change. And that is another motivational

thing also. So these are some reasons why I have

this podcast. So this is very important in these

different ways. So if you could do that for me,

I would appreciate it. Thank you. Of course.

So I was born and raised in Buenos Aires, Argentina.

I moved to the United States. at age 31. At 42,

I was working in accounting and I was reflecting

about my future and I was like, I'm not sure.

I want to continue to do this for another 25

years. So I always had this passion for helping

others and I wanted to be a therapist. So I was

like, okay, what do I need to do in order to

be a therapist? I need to go to school. So I

enrolled myself. in the Bachelor of Social Work

program while I continued to work in accounting.

I graduated at 46 and six weeks after graduation,

I was on track to do my master's and six weeks

after graduation, I was diagnosed with breast

cancer because life is what happens when you

have other plans. So I moved back to Argentina

to take care of my health and then I wanted to

celebrate my 50th birthday back in the state,

so I moved back. I asked God for a sign, and

I received an email from the university saying,

hey, we have the advanced program back. Do you

want to enroll? So I moved back. I celebrated

my 50th birthday, and I started my master's at

that age. I graduated at 51. What I want to reinforce

is the concept of like, when I was diagnosed

with breast cancer, my first reaction was, why

me? I don't have children of my own, but at that

time my mom was alive, so I have a mom, I have

a sister, I have nieces, I have girlfriends,

and I started thinking like, oh, if it wasn't

me, would I prefer that it was one of them who

got the diagnosis? And the answer is no. I changed

the question from why me to why not me, which

took me away from the victim mentality of why

me to why not me. And now I have a decision to

make. I can sit in the corner and wait to die

or I can stand up and fight. Spoiler alert, here

I am 14 years later. One of the things that cancer

came to show me was how bad I wanted to be a

therapist, because nobody would have blamed me

if I didn't continue my education. Oh, you had

breast cancer, like, okay, it's okay, go back

to accounting. But it came to show me how bad

I wanted to be a therapist. And my motto is I

had cancer, cancer didn't have me. And that can

be applied for any challenge that anybody is

facing, because we all go through challenges.

But the thing is, I invite the listeners to,

they have, we all have a hundred percent track

record of being successful at overcoming challenges.

How do I know? Because you are here. So whatever

you've been through could not take you out. Why

is this particular challenge that you are confronting

different than all the other million of challenges

that you overcame? And one of the things that

I like to reinforce is that at the time that

we overcame those challenges, we didn't have

all the answers. Because a lot of times we get

stuck in like, OK, when I have everything in

front of me, I make the decision. No, no, it

doesn't work that way. You make the decision

and then the path opens. But it's like if I invite

everybody to reflect back at their own challenges

and how they didn't have all the answers. The

secret is not in not falling, is in not remaining

on the ground. So you follow seven times, you

get up eight. So as far as we continue to put

one foot in front of the other, we're going to

make it on the other side of the challenge. So

it's not like don't allow. any challenge that

you are confronting, to keep you stuck. Just

even in the dark, even if you don't know where

you are going, the important thing is that you

keep putting one foot in front of the other because

like you want to be here and you are here. As

far as you continue to move, eventually you're

going to make it here. But if you get stuck,

you're going to remain here. So reflecting on

your own journey. Don't even believe me. Like,

oh, we consume. No, don't. Me reflecting to your

own journey and realize that you had overcame

a lot of challenges without having all the answers

at the time that the challenge was sent it itself.

OK, yeah, that was very good. Thank you. So what

was your feelings and thoughts as when you were

diagnosed with breast cancer and the time? in

between that and you going to college and getting

your degree. So whatever time that was and the

events that happened in between that, what did

that process look like for you? Just as I said,

like I was like, why me? Then I switched to why

not me? And I saw the treatment as my way. of

fighting because standing up for myself. So from

the cancer diagnosis until I went back to do

my master's, it was about three years, but that

was the most intensive part of my treatment.

But I continued my treatment way after I was

in the master's program and after I graduated.

But I think that a lot of times we are waiting

for motivation. You know, when I feel motivated

and I personally think the motivation is overrated.

We've been doing stuff that we were not motivated

to do our entire lives. So you think that the

secret is discipline, not motivation, because

motivation goes away. But discipline is like

what made me. attend the appointment, although

the last thing that I wanted to do was get up

at five o 'clock in the morning to go to the

hospital to see the doctor. And so it's like

the entire process was a decision that was made

one day at a time, one decision at a time. I'm

happy to report 14 years of being cancer -free,

but those 14 years would achieve one treatment

at a time, one pill at a time. one doctor visit

at a time. So it's like, let's not get lost in

the bigger picture. It's like how we get there

is remaining in the present moment. Yeah, that

was good. Thank you. So what made you pursue

this treatment of cancer? Did you have professional

help? Did a doctor tell you that you needed to

do it or a therapist? Or did you just want to

do it like you were talking about putting one

foot in front of the other? Did you basically

motivate yourself or did somebody really reinforce

that you needed to do it? Was it a life or death

situation? How did you get to that thought that

you knew solid that you were going to get this

treatment and you needed it and you knew it was

going to help? So I had a community. It was,

I didn't do it alone. I had my therapist, I had

my doctor, and I have my own research done where

I was asking a lot of questions because they

wanted to do conventional chemotherapy. And I

asked, okay, what are the chances that by all

means it's not medical advice. If you are going

through health challenge, please inform yourself

and ask the questions. I'm sharing my own experience.

They wanted to do a conventional chemotherapy

and I said, okay, what are the percentages? And

they say 50 -50. I said, no, you're going to

do better than that. You're going to give me

an 80 -20. I'm not going to poison my entire

body just in case a one cancer cell got missed.

But I advocated for myself based on my own research.

So it's not more than the doctors, but the doctors

are not more than me. We are a team. So I was,

I am a very active member of my medical team

because you are the expert in cancer, but this

is my body. We had to meet in the middle. Do

the treatment and i will do my part we need to

talk about why is this the best option so after

a lot of back and forth with the hospital the

hospital attorneys i sign releases i'm not gonna

sue you if the cancer comes back like blah blah

blah all of a sudden they have a different treatment

to offer me. Oh really but why because i refuse

like i refuse because it's like. No this is not

what is best for my body so my oncologist at

that time she is a woman and she said if he was

me i will do it and i said we all do respect.

It's not you this is my body so when you get

your own diagnosis of breast cancer and i hope

that doesn't happen you make your your decisions.

So they presented me with an alternative treatment

that make a lot more sense. And it's like, oh,

see that there was another option. And I think

that is so important that we learn how to advocate

for ourselves. This is not telling the doctor

like you are nobody, but it's like, this is like,

I am the patient and you have a job because I

have an issue. So we are going to meet in the

middle. Like we have to be a team. So I have

like the doctor's information. I have my therapist,

my mental health therapist providing support.

I have my family support. I have friends support.

I have cancer group support, which I think that

are so important because group is like we, I

don't like we connect differently because we

are going through the same stuff. So it's like

we have that bond that is like in a lot of my

The group members were like, oh, have you considered

blah, blah, blah, or did you ask this or did

you ask that? We don't have to do it alone. Whatever

challenge we are facing, there is a lot of help

out there and it's up to us to be willing to

not only look for it, but also accept it when

we find it. Yeah, that was very good. Thank you.

A few things I was thinking about when you were

talking and in the beginning, you know, you explained

about what you had just said. If you are someplace,

you just keep doing, taking the next step forward

and then you get to the goal or becoming positive

or changing whatever it is that you want to change.

But and you just said it also is that The first

thing I need to do I can want to do. I mean,

I can think about doing it. The first thing I

need to do is create the willingness to actually

do it. So if I want to go to the store and I

sit on my couch and I'm watching TV and I say

I'm going to go to the store, it doesn't happen

until I actually get up and get in my car and

go to the store. So because saying it now, now

I'm creating the willingness. And all's I need

is a little, little, little bit. But if I say

it and I don't do anything about it, then nothing's

gonna happen. And I could start with any step.

I could start with baby steps because it only

creates, I only need a little bit. I don't need,

this is not an impossible, we're not in impossible

scenarios here. A lot of times, life is very

easy. It shouldn't be as difficult as we make

it. And I am part of this also, because I struggled

with my life a lot. But when I see where I am

now... and how much easier my life is. I knew

that if I didn't change where I was at, my life

wouldn't be this easy and I wouldn't have everything

that I have today. Because now that I see that,

I personally feel, and this is all stuff that

I teach, bottom line, I personally feel that

everybody's life, as long as they really want

it and they put in actual work, whether it's

thinking, to me, thinking and planning is work.

whether they put in the actual work or they do

something physical or whatever it is that however

they're going to get through it, that will make

their lives so much easier and then it will not

be difficult to meet my goals and dreams and

do whatever I want because I feel that I am holding

myself back. Life does not hold me back. And

the things that I want to do, whether some people

think they're planned or not, or it just happens

as I go through life, whatever that person believes.

But the bottom line is my life doesn't have to

be difficult. Things come very, very, very easy.

And I wouldn't understand why my life would be

easy and somebody else's life would be difficult

because they make it that way, just like I made

it that way. So this is the thing. So I think

that everybody has an opportunity to get through

any problem or issue or any negative situation

that they could get through, and their life will

be easy. And you are not only easy, but just

better. They're happier. And your story, what

you were just describing, is a very, very, very

good example of that. It's an excellent example.

Because these things, I mean, this is a matter

of life or death. I know people that have died

from breast cancer. I know people that have died

from all kinds of cancer. This is not an easy

thing that you went through. We're talking, and

you're saying, I did this, I did that, I went

through treatment and all this stuff. But you're

explaining to me a little bit about how you're

feeling. and what your process was. And I can

get a little bit of an idea, but the fact is

I didn't really go through that. I never had

breast cancer, any type of cancer. So I didn't

really go through that. I don't wish it on anybody.

But a lot of times I don't know what that's gonna

be like until I go through the process myself.

Because everybody has their own individual story.

everybody has their own individual process. But

we are showing that you had breast cancer, you

went through the treatment, now you don't have

it anymore, or your life is happier. So that's

a big thing for me. And I'm talking about this

from my experience with 20 -something years,

23 years, 24 years of coaching people. And that's

exactly what because i've been all through this

with people and like i just said myself also

and this is just this is reality. This is not

stuff that i'm making up this is not that i have.

seen, experienced. And execution is, so taking

action is so important because like if, as you

said, if I'm sitting on the couch, I'm not going

to make it to the store. So it's like literally

when we are executing, when we are taking action,

we are literally getting out of our heads and

into the present moment. So it's like, stop believing

your brain who's been lying to you your entire

life. You cannot do this. This is, oh my God,

we're always going to be like this. It's like,

yeah, no, we are not. We are always going to

be like this until we make the decision to create

a different reality. I think that we don't see

things as they are. We see things as we are.

A knife can be used to, it could be a good element

accessory for your kitchen, or it could be a

little force. You can kill somebody with a knife,

but we are not, like when I grab the knife to

cut the steak, I'm not thinking of killing anybody,

but it can be a weapon. And it's the same knife.

So it's like, it's not about the knife, it's

about how the meaning that we are giving it to

the knife. And it's like, and that is for any

experiences that we confront in life. It's like,

okay, we can ask why until we're blue in the

face, or we can change the question and ask,

what can I learn from this? I learned that I'm

resilient. I learned that life continues. Like

when I have a client telling me that I'm too

old to go back to school. I love, I started at

42, I started my masters at 50 and English is

not my first language. You are barking at the

wrong tree. Don't tell me it cannot be done because

I did it. And that's the other thing too is that

the negativity controls me. So it keeps feeding

me these negative thoughts and it will if I keep

listening to it because that's what it wants

me to do. But if I don't... And like we're all

talking about this whole entire podcast is basically

what this is about. If I don't feed into it and

I say I'm going to get through this, I'm going

to get do something positive, then it will go

away because it has nothing to feed from. That's

another thing that there's a lot of things here.

I mean, we just mentioned two things. I compare

the brain to a two -year -old throwing a temper

tantrum. It's like, oh, my God, we are always

going to feel like this. We're never going to

get better. Like, focus on something else. Focus

on what is positive in your life, because the

brain is thinking like, oh, my God, this is the

end of the world. And yet you are here. So that

means that your mission in life is not complete.

Yeah, very, very good. So how do you feel? Today

right this minute based on everything that we've

spoke about your story Everything that you've

described in this whole entire podcast. How do

you feel as a result of all of that? I feel great.

I feel excited to Share my story. I think that

we go through things that can potentially be

a blessing to someone else. So I am super excited

to be able to share my story through these interviews.

I have my own show where I share a lot about

like everyday things, because it's like everything

that we are going through is not for us to keep,

it's for us. to transform it and give it away

to others. Very, very good. And that was a very

good way to close. And in closing, I would also

like to say that as we just spoke about in the

beginning, right, which I want to reiterate again,

is that anybody could get through anything as

long as they put the next foot forward, create

the willingness, and they actually take that

step. But sometimes, not all the time, But because

you also talked about this, but sometimes we

need help. We need somebody to tell us that something

is wrong. OK. And if I know, then I need the

help that I can get, because I don't really believe

that people can really do anything alone. And

they really don't have to, because there's always

somebody out there that will help them. Most

of the time, multiple people. So as we close,

this conversation is a reminder that progress

really comes from one big decision, but from

the internal choices we repeat. If something

from today's discussion connected with you, take

a moment to notice how those internal shifts

showed up in your own life. This has been the

Internal Shift Show. Thank you for listening

and thank you, Zuma, for being on the show. I

appreciate it. Thank you for having me.